How to walk a spiritual path in this world.

[mojomojo]

I looked into spirituality in my early thirties, mainly because I could not understand why people were they way they were.
While spirituality gave me all my answers at that time, and I now understood why people behaved in such ways, it also encouraged me to continue spiritual practice at a more concentrated level.
The result was many wonderful experiences, a peaceful and quite mind and a great sense of calm.
Along with that, all anger was gone, the idea of hurting another human being or any living creature was alien, one experience put me off eating meat, and brought up the consideration of becoming vegetarian, but this new spiritual mindset brought up another question.
How does one walk a spiritual path of peace and calm in a world which basically boils down to might is right.
Is becoming a doormat for those who would use violence, part of the course.
I have asked this question before, but so far there doesn’t seem to be an answer.
Anyone have an idea?

[donq]

Hi Robert,

When I was a (very) young man, I had no freedom. Whenever I felt greedy, angry and delusive, I didn't know the other way to change them and had to do something that I always regretted later. But after I had been into spirituality, I found that I had more and more choices to choose and not be the slave of my greed, anger and delusion. More than that, my bonus was even the very simple little things could make me happy and peaceful. For example (that time, I was still living in my forest temple):

It was around 8 P.M. and the rain was still sprinkling. It was dark and cold outside, but near my small campfire was warm. I was sitting, half-lying on a bamboo litter in my hut's balcony (veranda). I had a cup of hot tea was in my hand and was listening to the sound of rain and frogs' croaking. I felt a bit sleepy but so peacefully happy. Those feelings, those musics of nature in my ears were the endless treasures that I would not trade them for any other beautiful symphonies as they soothed me to be so peaceful until I felt that there was not anything else in the world to be envious about anymore.

.......................
About being a doormat, I still don't know the answer. But from my experiences, I've learned something about this. Human mind is so complicated. If you are tall, then, it will (automatically) make others feel short. And no one wants to be a dwarf. So, they will do everything to make you shorter than them, or at least, short like them, even using violence. In this aspect, they don't have their freedom. They did what they did (making others to be their doormats) because they didn't know the other ways. They still were the salves of their greed, anger and delusion.
I don't think being a doormat is the worst thing. Though I don't know much about a holy war (a religious war) but knew that so many people were killed just because of the differences in religions and beliefs. If that happened at the hands of those who called themselves "spiritual persons", how do we expect it will not happen among those who don't know anything about spirituality?

[mojomojo]

Hi Monty,
Thank you for your response, I do truly understand what you say, that it is the ignorance of others, that cause them to behave in their ways.
Maybe it is a case that I just expect too much from other people.
In my youth, I was no different, growing up in a very abusive household, I too learned the ways of my abusers, and used violence, I learnt people left me alone, if I used violence, but it never felt right, it felt as if I was going against my very nature.
Maybe this is the answer, you walk a spiritual path in this world, with some measure of difficulty.
Maybe we just have to accept that.

[donq]

Hi Robert,

After I posted my prior post last night, I felt a bit of worry (about misunderstanding). So, thanks for the fact that you really knew me. And thanks for your understanding.

I believe there's still something miraculous about believing in/practicing spirituality. For example, there was a time when I lost everything (all of my money, car, house etc.). I had no money in my pocket at all. How could I survive that? Or, in some situations, I should have already died, but somehow I've survived. I knew for sure that I didn't have the power in me to change those bad situations. But somehow, helping came. How could I manage those serendipity (meaningful coincidences) coming to me at the very time that I needed them the most?
I believe the similar miracles like what I said above, happened to you, too, right?

[mojomojo]

Hi Monty,
I had a long think about your last question and I did have to realise, there were many times in my past when I would have been the victim of violence, but some thing always happened.
Someone would intercede or I would get a warning, an inner feeling that this place is not safe.
Once, the quite voice inside, warned, I would be attacked, five minutes later walking past an ATM, some drunken man, turned shouting abuse and came towards me, again someone intervened.
Funny how we forget these small incidents, either I’m very lucky or someone is looking out for me.
God bless.

[donq]

Hi Robert,

This might beg a question, "why did I lose everything in the first place?"

As you said above about being a doormat or being a victim of some people. For example, I trusted someone and lost everything in working with them. So, the shortest answer is, I trusted the wrong people. Because of spiritual practice, I used to believe that there was no such thing as bad people. I used the word "bad" in the broadest sense, it includes being selfish, taking advantage of others etc. In the mundane world, it's so normal, and there's nothing wrong about it. If I were a salesman, and don't take advantage of others, how could I sell anything?

Here comes the complicated (if not conflicted) issues between the mundane world and spirituality. Because of my spirituality, I used to believe that everyone was good and kind. But I learned the hard way that bad people were very real. And the hardest thing about learning is, I had to relearn it again and again, so many times, before I reached my true understanding. Now, after I "know" that the bad people are real, this time, when they are taking advantage of me, I "know" all of that and still have my own freedom: to let them do that or just walking away from them without any hard feelings. They are just who they are; they have no choices to do otherwise. That's all.

[mojomojo]

Hi Monty,
I agree with everything you say, but here is the catch, a spiritual person is meant to see the good in everyone, to see the God part of each human being.
This mindset will attract those who would use people for their own gain, the fly will land on the cow least likely to swat it with its tail.
You get to the stage where you have to ask, why do I keep attracting these people into my life.
To say some people are bad is putting it mildly, people can be downright evil, we focused a bit on physical violence, but mental abuse can be far worse and longer lasting.
Narcissism seems to be wild spread in society today.
I have witnessed the antics of people, who through manipulation and planning, have gone out of their way to hurt others to great effect, I could give examples, but worry the wrong person would read it.
As you state you have the freedom to choose whether you carry this hurt with you or not, but some hurts can take a lifetime to heal.
Then we’re back to why do people hurt other people, the answer they have been hurt themselves, it’s a never ending cycle, but does forgiveness stop the cycle, I would answer, no.
Forgiveness means we don’t carry it with us, but it also opens us up to receive more of the same, are we trying to live an ideal, in a world that plays by completely different rules.
Going back to why we attract people like this into our lives, can only come down to one thing, we are lacking in ourselves, we feel we are not worthy, not good enough.
Can it be that simple, it’s how we truly feel about ourselves.

[donq]

Hi Robert,

I think I've got some big understanding here. Thank to you.
Let me put it this way. Say, someone stole a half of water in my glass. I'm dealing with two solutions here. First, it's about an objective solution: I might keep my glass of water in the safe; report the stealing to the police so that they will catch and imprison the thief.
Secondly, it's about a subjective solution. As we already heard it too often: the glass is not half-empty, but it's (still) half-full. This part has something to do with spirituality, more or less.
That said, if I try to deal only with a subjective solution and ignore an objective solution, it will only attract someone to steal from me more and more. Totally agree with you on this.
.....................
My prior posts might sound like I considered those bad people lightly. Yes and no. No, in the sense that I've learned that they are bad people and I don't want to do anything with them anymore (objective solution, more or less).
Yes, in the subjective solution's sense: say, when someone did something bad to me, it took me an enormous energy not to do the same bad thing to them in return (But it will getting a lot easier and easier later). I don't want to lose myself and become like them (doing bad things to others). In this aspect, it might have nothing to do with my forgiveness, it's just I know so well that I cannot change them, and I also know that even they want to change, they might not succeed. As it requires so enormous energy as I've mentioned.
Yes, you were right. The subjective solution will never stop them from doing bad things to us or someone else.

[mojomojo]

Just watched a video on you tube, called, Do not be too kind.
A Buddhist monk explained, that to be too kind in this world will attract people who will take advantage, they will see your kindness and peacefulness as weakness.
He explained, be a spiritual person on the inside, be peaceful, be kind, but on the outside, where the world will see you, set boundaries, stand up for yourself, and if need be engage in self defence.
I guess there is a difference in someone who engages in violence to get his own way, and the person who engages in self defence or to protect his property or family.
In this way, one could walk a spiritual path on this earth, so long as you do not get dragged down and use violence for your own gain.