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Post by gruntal on Nov 2, 2022 20:18:35 GMT
It is often joked if you want to know a person's religion just check the religion of their parents. With the idea you pretty much inherited your church affiliation from the day you were born. That of course can be quite the lament for free thinkers and persons who base themselves on choice.
That might explain why some things don't improve or are even questioned. How dare you be different. Few bother.
But how does the pariah feel about those he left behind? All the advice, the teachings, the reassurances your parents teachers and counsellors gave you now amount to nothing less then betrayal. You turned your back on the very things that DEFINED your family and societal ties. Because they lied to you.
They may lament you have cast your lot with the devil even as you rejoice you finally had the courage to escape Hell. It can feel very lonely though and it might be tempted to return.
But when you see the light you know which direction to go. So don't look back.
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donq
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Post by donq on Nov 12, 2022 22:03:04 GMT
Hi George,
Well said. And I always feel like "an outsider", if not an outcast. Anyway, from time to time, I cannot help but reminiscing my past. Somehow I feel like Ishmael in Melville's Moby Dick:
"....having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people’s hats off- then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball."
Yes, whenever I feel I cannot enjoy any food or anything (even books) and my life is so hectic, I always think of my past (or Ishmael's "to get to sea"). Those times when my spiritual search was still so pure (and I still was so naive then). I believed in everything and everyone. I somehow was ignorantly happy. Even nowadays I can still recall those feelings of my bliss then. And what has happened? The more I'm getting old, the more I'm learning that less and less persons and less and less things are real good. And I cannot unlearn that. But do I want to? I mean, trading what I've learned for my (ignorant) bliss?
But yes, reminiscing those good bliss in the past really is "my substitute for pistol and ball", as Ishmael said.
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mojomojo
Go deep enough, and there is a bedrock of truth, however hard.
Posts: 694
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Post by mojomojo on Nov 13, 2022 13:19:58 GMT
Hello George/Monty, it’s a very interesting point, would one be better off living in ignorance and not have searched for any meaning in life. A lot of the time lately, I would say yes. People often say the truth will set you free, it has not worked that way for me, trying to live from a higher point of view, leaves you vulnerable to those who would take advantage. The older I have become the more I realise how downright evil people can be, and as they become older, the worse they seem to become. Also, you are left in conflict with your self, the ego mind will fight to the death to remain in control. After all my years of reading and practicing, I now understand why people are the way they are, but it doesn’t change anything. I once read a quote from someone, Who stated, when you read a book of a righteous person, Jesus Christ or Gandhi, the next book you should read, should be of Hitler. I did not understand it then, but I do now.
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Post by gruntal on Nov 13, 2022 17:16:13 GMT
To be infected by the mindset of some one like Hitler does have the advantage of having less remorse when you later change your mind. But what if you discover there are No hero's ? Only an ideal you believe in yet to be realized? And if you did find it you would probably just contaminate it by your inevitable flawed being?
I think that is when altruism saves you. Maybe all that matters is how much you are willing to give and let go. But you fear being so empty ....
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donq
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Post by donq on Nov 14, 2022 4:33:35 GMT
Hi Robert, I do agree. So many times when I read some serious books (or some Ph.D. Dissertations), I had no doubt that those writers already did their best, but I still feel that it was not it (at least for me).
For example, whenever I heard someone talking about how to ride a car, no matter how clever words he used, I still knew whether he could really ride a car not (as I myself have driven a car for more than 40 years). I believe it has something to do with experiences?
So, I could tell if any person does understand life, the real and tough one, or not.
That said, I still believe about "back to the beginning." Let me quote Zen here: “Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters;
after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.” ― Dōgen
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mojomojo
Go deep enough, and there is a bedrock of truth, however hard.
Posts: 694
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Post by mojomojo on Nov 14, 2022 7:21:37 GMT
The reason to study the mind of an evil person, is to become aware of their tactics and strategy, so as to better be able to protect yourself. Studying just the righteous, is only one half of the whole, it leaves you naive, and may be considered escapism. You have hit the nail on the head, it is an ideal you believe in, waiting to be realised, and all down through history right up to the present moment, we are still waiting.
Problem is, it’s only a small minority waiting, the majority are quite happy with the way things are, some strive on it, and consider those who find fault to be weak. At times you wonder, is spirituality just escapism from the crude hardships of life, or an identity to explain away your weakness.
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