Looking for those with loving souls...

[sentience]

...no matter your spiritual affiliation.  I am an author/artist.  I was raised a fundamentalist Christian.  I became agnostic.  In my twenties I felt what some would call a calling, despite my agnosticism.  A book about a little seagull named Jonathon prompted me to begin college.  I graduated and was about to begin my graduate program in counseling when severe tragedy hit my life.  Long story short this tragedy prompted me to become an author.  I dropped grad school, deciding I could reach more people through my books. I'm here to find others who feel the light within and a call to help, no matter their spiritual affiliation.  We are one.

[mojomojo]

I think its a natural progression for those who look into spirituality, and find everything now makes sense, to want to tell everyone.
Problem is not many want to know, trying to explain spirituality to someone who knows nothing or has not experienced anything is to say the least, very difficult, and more often than not, will alienate yourself.
There is a huge difference, when someone is on the verge of wanting to know, and the vast majority who couldn't care less.
Take the case of Jesus and his apostles, who were ridiculed, left running for their lives, and eventually murdered.
A great lesson on this matter can be had by going to an atheist forum and try explaining your ways to them.
The vast majority are ruled by the ego mind, and their only concern is themselves, money and power.
A peaceful person, in among those who will stop at nothing to get their ways, is like a lamb among wolves.
Again quoting from the Bible, " And the meek shall inherit the earth."
I automatically think of meek people as been sensitive, reserved and non violent, problem is you can not live in this world by been harmless. If people get the idea, there will be no come back, when they take something from you, guess what's going to happen.
Some people now claim that meek actually means, those who are well able to use the sword, but choose not to, which does make a lot more sense, but the point here is that you must be capable of executing violence when the time comes, you just prefer not to.
Which brings up another question, if you engage in violence for whatever reason, have you not descended to the level of the beast.



mojo.

[sentience]

Thank you for your response.  I believe you are correct in your assessments.  The tragedy in my life were caused by my brother's violence.  He shot and killed his neighbors with his deer hunting rifle.  Two of the four he shot we had gone to church with when we were kids.  They were good, loving people.  In his confession tape taken shortly after the murders he said, "Religion has ruined my life.  I have never had any fun," and he sobbed.  (Everything was a sin, roller skating, bowling, dancing, wearing make up...you name it.)  He was not one to cry.  It tore my loving parents' hearts apart.  Dad died shortly thereafter of a heart attack.  Mom cried about what my brother had done for years.  My books are works of fiction.  They are not books that say, "This is the way."  I thrust my characters into problems and they have to work their way out.  No one wants to be told anything.    

[mojomojo]

I have no idea what such a tragedy could do to the mind, or how you would even begin to cope with it.
It must have been devastating for you all, my God, how did your parents even begin to cope.
I truly don't know what to say.

mojo.

[sentience]

Feb 8, 2021 10:15:07 GMT mojomojo said:

I have no idea what such a tragedy could do to the mind, or how you would even begin to cope with it.
It must have been devastating for you all, my God, how did your parents even begin to cope.
I truly don't know what to say.

mojo.

They could barely get by.  His wife had left him.  He threatened her on Friday.  She let me know while he was outside in the yard on Saturday.  She waited until he left for work on Monday.  When he came home from work and found her and his kids gone, he called my parents.  They came to be with him for the evening.  They did not know about the threats.  The next day when he got home from work, my parents went to be with him.  He lived in a rural setting.  Mom decided to make dinner.  Dad sat by the wall furnace.  My brother went up to his bedroom, got a gun and left the house.  Mom and Dad did not see him walk out of the house.  But they did hear him.  Mom said later that she thought he'd gone out to feed the dog.  He crossed the road and tried to get into the house.  The door was locked.  He shot the doorknob.  He still couldn't get in.  The man was seated in an easy chair watching Billy Graham on tv.  My brother shot him in the head.  My brother broke out the front window with the butt of his gun, climbed through chased the woman down the hall.  She picked up the phone to call the police.  He shot her in the head.  It disintegrated the phone.  My brother then exited the house, went down the country lane to the next house, spotted the woman in the window at the kitchen sink.  He shot her through the window.  Her teenage kids and husband came running in.  My brother shot the husband through the window.  My brother went back toward his house.  By then our parents were out in the yard to see what was going on.  My brother said, "Call the police, I think I have just killed some people."  He said something to Dad that Dad would never say what it was.  My brother then walked down the lane to the county road and waited for the police.  Mom immediately called the police.  He surrendered when the officer approached.

Mom and Dad were not okay.  I was 30 at the time.  They were 60 and 65.  It was a nightmare.  I helped them as best I could.  I became the parent, in a way.  They were good loving country people.  All of the above came out at the trial.  I learned some of it the night of the killings after my parents called me and I went to be with them. 

[donq]

Hi Sentience,

I haven't heard anyone (on the spiritual forums like this) mentioned about that book of Richard Bach for more than thirty years or so. Recently my memory is not so good (it naturally comes with my old age) but here's something I wrote almost three decades ago
(I wrote in my native language, so might sound weird after it was translated into English):

Legend of the sea in the mountain is faded away,
A seagull silently cry in the alienate sky,
The heart of a free spirit rests wearily...
in the eternal land.

Thanks for your sharing. You were brave and sincere. That was a sad story. And it may be sadder from each and every one's point of view in the story. I wrote on another thread about "something bad always happen to good people", I think that might not always be the case. From another point of view, spiritual one, it should be, "no matter how much bad things happen to good people, they still stand". Always do.
Everyone has a sad story like that. For example, I might not know your brother but I believe I feel his pain, more or less. I divorced twice (first one cheated on me, another one costed me my house, my car, my job and all of my money, worse that that, even my personal library). In hindsight, I think I was really lucky that it happened to me, not to someone I loved. Hence it depends on the point of view.

It took me 60 years, even after I was into I Ching for more than 40 years now, to learn that "you never know, really know what’s waiting for you around the next corner". I will not talk about "wu-wie" or "action by non-action" here. Already talked a lot about it in the past. I kind of agree with Alexandre Dumas who wrote, “All human wisdom is contained in these two words - Wait and Hope”. I also like another modern version:
"I've spent my entire life studying the human body, and I can say with scientific certainty, that what keeps us alive more important than blood or oxygen or even love, is hope." Henry Morgan (Forever, TV series).

Welcome to the forum.

P.S. Another thing I've learned from being a poster online for more than thirty years is "the problem of many way communications". I apologize if you misunderstood my post. I mean neither offend nor harm. Or even you might understand my post, someone might misunderstand it. Always.

[donq]

Oh! I've just realized that I miss one line:

Legend of the sea in the mountain is faded away,
It's so painful on the path of truth seeking.
A seagull silently cry in the alienate sky.
The heart of a free spirit rests wearily...
in the eternal land.

[mojomojo]

Again I'm left speechless, but left wondering of the after shock of such a tragedy.
If you don't wish to answer these questions, that's fine, its your choice completely.
Did your parents still continue to live in the same place, I cant help wondering if they and yourself got support from the local community or did it go the opposite way.
Either way something like this must stay with you your entire life, but as donq said [hello Monty] most people have to endure tragedy in their lives.
In my case, it was a psychopath father who engaged in abuse of every kind, I was the main victim, I looked like my mother, he didn't consider me his own, all the other siblings were fair haired like himself.
He was very clever and manipulative and turned the whole family against me, so no-one would ever believe if I ever spoke up.
A couple of years ago I told the other siblings, which was a complete waste of time, and for the first time ever I understood how all those catholic priest who didnt partake in abuse, but stood there and said nothing, operated.
Last November he died, in the middle of the pandemic, so visiting was very restricted, he died of septicemia.
I still did my duty, been the spiritual one, went to see him in hospital, carried the coffin in and out of the church, acted like everything was normal.
Since the funeral, I have been cut out by the rest of the siblings, its obvious now, I was just entertained to keep my mouth shut and once their father was buried it was game over.
Which brings me back to a thought I've had before, is it only people who have suffered tragedy who turn inward, turn to spirituality.

[sentience]

donq, if I wrote "something bad always happen to good people" it should have been "sometimes bad things happen to good people".  Sometimes the fingers don't type what the mind is thinking, especially as I get older.  Your poem,

Legend of the sea in the mountain is faded away,

It's so painful on the path of truth seeking.
A seagull silently cry in the alienate sky.
The heart of a free spirit rests wearily...

in the eternal land.

is powerful.  And so true.  Jonathan Livingston Seagull changed my life.  I then knew I could learn to fly, me a little country girl.  I was 21 when it was published.  I read it in a half an hour on my lunch break.  A fellow employee loaned it to me.  When I consider all the bad things that have happened to me, I am grateful for them.  Rather than staying devastated by them, I used them to learn and grow.  It sounds like you used your bad experiences the same way.  You have nothing to apologize for.  Your heart and soul are good ones, your intent pure.

mojomojo,

Ask anything you like.  People generally did not react to my parents in any way.  They lived in the same area as my brother.  The ones who knew them did not know what to say.  We suffered through it without community support or condemnation.  Mom did get a little silent support from her church.  But mostly we faced it alone.  I have an article about it on my website, if you'd like to read it.  I'm still not sure how this site works. I'm not sure what I can post here and what I can't. 

It must be awful to get the brunt of your father's mental deficiencies and to be rejected by your family.  People can be very cruel.  The deficiencies are theirs, but we often pay the price. 

Today I couldn't even figure out how to do a quote and post a reply at the same time.  The mind is still waking up.

[gruntal]

Hi. I was told to do some silly writing. Nothing somber or Earth shaking. I found that very difficult as my fine mind would get in the way. It would seem in writing short stories I discovered quite a lot about myself. Some were posted on my web site but it crashed and I was too preoccupied to reprogram it. Maybe next month.

Much good and bad in my life. Tons of surprises. It isn't that life lacks meaning - I just underestimate life in general. But that is a story for another time ...

[sentience]

Feb 12, 2021 0:50:05 GMT gruntal said:

Hi. I was told to do some silly writing. Nothing somber or Earth shaking. I found that very difficult as my fine mind would get in the way. It would seem in writing short stories I discovered quite a lot about myself. Some were posted on my web site but it crashed and I was too preoccupied to reprogram it. Maybe next month.

Much good and bad in my life. Tons of surprises. It isn't that life lacks meaning - I just underestimate life in general. But that is a story for another time ...

Who told you to do the silly writing?  Doing that can help a person learn about themselves.  It works as therapy for me.  If I have things I need to work through I write those things into my novels...different events than mine, of course.  But it works for me.  I also underestimate things and people.  It's a learning process...all of life is, for me.  If it wasn't, I'd be bored.

[donq]

Hi Sentience,

You wrote:

"donq, if I wrote 'something bad always happen to good people' it should have been 'sometimes bad things happen to good people'. Sometimes the fingers don't type what the mind is thinking, especially as I get older.

Hahaha! It had nothing to do about my fingers. Thanks for your correction. And please feel free to correct me anytime as English is not my first language and my dear friends here always want to keep my face until sometimes I thought my English is that good.

So, let me consult you with this: if I want to say "something bad always happen to good people", how do I say it rightly? In my understanding (which was obviously wrong as you indirectly/politely pointed out), if I said, "sometimes bad things happen to good people", it seems it happens only "a few times", just once and a while, or not so often. But if some bad things happen to good people so many times, how do I say it?

More than that, if I want to say that in the context of helping/supporting someone who are enduring those bad things, I believe that they don't want me to belittle their bad things, right? For example, a headache. Milton H. Erickson said it so well, "Nobody wants a picayune headache: since a headache must be endured, let it be so colossal that only the sufferer could endure it. Human pride is so curiously good and comforting!"

Again, please do not misunderstand me. Though I've been a (book) writer, editor and translator for more than 35 years, but I always want to learn English. I already told my friends here I've learned English by myself, by heart. Starting from opening dictionaries to look for almost every word on every page of the (English) book I was reading. Hahaha.

You said, "I was 21 when it was published."
It was first published in 1970. Wow! I thought I'm older than you. I was wrong. Respect, respect.

P.S. Hi Robert. Sorry for my absence for a long while. I'll try to come back here more. But that's not a promise, okay?

[gruntal]

I told my guru I couldn't meditate and I drew a total blank at automatic writing ( channeling ). I could not even channel myself! Being silly in a mature sort of way can actually be very difficult. I am much better at being moody and apprehensive . So I tried writing things on a kid's level. But the hidden meanings were still there ....

[sentience]

donq - I made the mistake in how it was written, not you.  My fingers are arthritic.  I have a bunch of personal issues that are weighing on me right now.  So sometimes I don't do a good job of conveying my meaning.  Do you work for a publisher or are you freelance in your editing?

gruntal - When I meditate, I no longer seek to channel anyone.  I work on being free of expectations.  I do meditate with mindfulness...being in the moment.  I write what I write, because it's what I want to do.  Expectations of others kill the creativity in me.

[donq]

Hi Sentience,


I made the mistake in how it was written, not you. My fingers are arthritic.
-My apology for misreading/misunderstanding you. Sorry to hear about your arthritic. As for me, sometimes I could not find the alphabet I was going to type next and thought it was not there on my keyboard. hahaha I never success in touch typing. Always have to use my eyes.

I have a bunch of personal issues that are weighing on me right now. So sometimes I don't do a good job of conveying my meaning.

-Got it. Take your time. And no need to reply this one.

Do you work for a publisher or are you freelance in your editing?

-Are you sure to ask that? Okay, I'll try my best to make it as short as I can.
My first ten years of my career was a full-time employee for five or six publishers (sorry, long time ago, could not really remember it). I quit my last position, the managing editor, because my job had nothing to do with editing books at all. And I could not stand the office politics. And I have become a freelancer since then (lucky that I have had connections with some publishers). As for non-fiction, I wrote three books, hundred of articles (published in newspaper and magazines). Though I wrote about ten short-stories (published in magazines) but never success in writing a novel. I translated about 10 books and edited (translated books) more than 400 books (both fiction and non-fiction). Frankly speaking, I also have had to become a translator just for paying my rent.

[sentience]

Feb 13, 2021 2:37:28 GMT donq said:

Hi Sentience,


I made the mistake in how it was written, not you. My fingers are arthritic.
-My apology for misreading/misunderstanding you. Sorry to hear about your arthritic. As for me, sometimes I could not find the alphabet I was going to type next and thought it was not there on my keyboard. hahaha I never success in touch typing. Always have to use my eyes.

I have a bunch of personal issues that are weighing on me right now. So sometimes I don't do a good job of conveying my meaning.

-Got it. Take your time. And no need to reply this one.

Do you work for a publisher or are you freelance in your editing?

-Are you sure to ask that? Okay, I'll try my best to make it as short as I can.
My first ten years of my career was a full-time employee for five or six publishers (sorry, long time ago, could not really remember it). I quit my last position, the managing editor, because my job had nothing to do with editing books at all. And I could not stand the office politics. And I have become a freelancer since then (lucky that I have had connections with some publishers). As for non-fiction, I wrote three books, hundred of articles (published in newspaper and magazines). Though I wrote about ten short-stories (published in magazines) but never success in writing a novel. I translated about 10 books and edited (translated books) more than 400 books (both fiction and non-fiction). Frankly speaking, I also have had to become a translator just for paying my rent.

Hi Donq,

I'm an author.  So my interest in your work as an editor is natural for me.  I've published one nonfiction book and eleven fiction books.  For my next book I will be seeking an new literary agent.  Two of my agents passed away. I will start the search in March.

[donq]

Hi again Sentience,

Yes, I know you are an author. What I meant by my last post is when someone ask me what I do for a living, I somehow cannot stop myself from talking and always bore them with very long details.

Wow! 11 books! That's awesome!

I understand a little about literary agent system there. Here, in my country, mostly authors/translators (even freelance editors) have to finish their jobs (and still alive) before getting their payments. Yes, except some (experienced/published/famous) authors who already have connection with their publishers might be able to get some advance payment but that's not always be the case. As for translation, it always start with a publisher. They want to translate some books, then they approach the translators they want. Those who want-to-be translators/writers have to struggle so hard (if they themselves don't give up first) before their first book will be published. I somehow was lucky to still be able to choose the books that I wanted to translate (Dostoevsky, Kafka, Nietzsche, Tolstoy, to name but a few). The good books here are (very) hard to sell (never more than 2,000 copies). That's why most (if not all) publishers want to print only bestselling/popular books. And that's why I'm still very poor as I never do those bestselling books (which I don't think they are good books) even I had a chance.

[sentience]

Feb 13, 2021 4:00:33 GMT donq said:

Hi again Sentience,

Yes, I know you are an author. What I meant by my last post is when someone ask me what I do for a living, I somehow cannot stop myself from talking and always bore them with very long details.

Wow! 11 books! That's awesome!

I understand a little about literary agent system there. Here, in my country, mostly authors/translators (even freelance editors) have to finish their jobs (and still alive) before getting their payments. Yes, except some (experienced/published/famous) authors who already have connection with their publishers might be able to get some advance payment but that's not always be the case. As for translation, it always start with a publisher. They want to translate some books, then they approach the translators they want. Those who want-to-be translators/writers have to struggle so hard (if they themselves don't give up first) before their first book will be published. I somehow was lucky to still be able to choose the books that I wanted to translate (Dostoevsky, Kafka, Nietzsche, Tolstoy, to name but a few). The good books here are (very) hard to sell (never more than 2,000 copies). That's why most (if not all) publishers want to print only bestselling/popular books. And that's why I'm still very poor as I never do those bestselling books (which I don't think they are good books) even I had a chance.

Actually twelve including the nonfiction...it is narrative nonfiction about what my brother did.  It's a hassle getting an agent and a  hassle getting a publisher.  Richard Bach recommended his editor to me after I wrote to him about one of his books which comforted me after my boyfriend died. He looked up my phone number and called me.  I was astonished.  He walked his talk.  By that time his editor was an agent and was semi-retired.  She took on my book and it was published.

I'm interested in your editing career because I write.  So you got more money if the book is a bestseller.  That's interesting.  I agree,  bestsellers are often not good books.  It's been my experience that for some reason they get the promotion when the better books don't. With my murder story I would have gotten more publicity if I had allowed them to interview my mother.  I refused.  When I wrote the book I asked my mother what she thought about me doing it.  She said, "As long as it might help people, it's okay.  Just don't let them find me."  It would have destroyed her.  By then my dad had died.  Making it in the world of books is complicated.

[donq]

Oh! Sorry, yes, 12, not 11 books.

Richard Bach was so kind to call you. Most writers (whether they are famous or not) have so big ego and would never do that.

My editing/translating help me a lot to deal with language barrier. Before I graduated, I started walking my spiritual journey and had done that for almost 12 years: living in the Forest (temple) for many years, even became a monk once. When I came back and start to look for a job, I threw away my law degree. I wanted to do something that could help people. I had many friends who worked for NGO and even joined them once and a while (no payment), but had to walked away. My friends seemed to have more problems (both mental and mundane) than the villagers they were trying to help.

Back to language barrier, once I joined a seminar which talked about Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment. I came back and asked myself, "Do they really read the same book?". It was okay as it was a fiction and I know that every one is unique, so each has his/her own interpretation. But what about non-fiction, especially spirituality and religion? Hence, a holy war. I'm a Buddhist by my choice, still I was rather into Mahayana (and Taoism) than Theravada. 95% of people in my country are Theravada Buddhists. And Theravada and Mahayana happened just because of different interpretations.

Once I wrote a short story (never got published) about this. The (paddling) boat was sinking in the middle of the river. There were 5 people on it: a monk, a woman and her baby, a young man and the boat's owner (paddler). The boat's owner and the (Theravada) monk started swimming to the shore while the young man still tried to save the woman and her baby. The first two survived but the latter all drown. As it was intended to be a fiction, so I didn't give any more hint.

Mahayana attacked Theravada that we should help other before we got enlightenment, and because of that kind of mind we would get our enlightenment (frankly speaking, Buddha never taught that). Theravada believe in more practical way that if we cannot help ourselves first, how could we help other? We will only drown with others in the end. And if the young man succeeded to reach the shore, not only he could save himself but he might be able to look for another boat and came back to help. And that's the big different between the monk and the boat owner. The latter only cared about himself.

Anyway, though my spiritual path started from Theravada Buddhism, I still found that Mahayana was a precious gem. Though it might not really what Buddha taught but it really can enhance anyone's mind on their spiritual path.

I have to say good night here. It's almost morning.

[sentience]

Feb 13, 2021 22:47:20 GMT donq said:

Oh! Sorry, yes, 12, not 11 books.

Richard Bach was so kind to call you. Most writers (whether they are famous or not) have so big ego and would never do that.

My editing/translating help me a lot to deal with language barrier. Before I graduated, I started walking my spiritual journey and had done that for almost 12 years: living in the Forest (temple) for many years, even became a monk once. When I came back and start to look for a job, I threw away my law degree. I wanted to do something that could help people. I had many friends who worked for NGO and even joined them once and a while (no payment), but had to walked away. My friends seemed to have more problems (both mental and mundane) than the villagers they were trying to help.

Back to language barrier, once I joined a seminar which talked about Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment. I came back and asked myself, "Do they really read the same book?". It was okay as it was a fiction and I know that every one is unique, so each has his/her own interpretation. But what about non-fiction, especially spirituality and religion? Hence, a holy war. I'm a Buddhist by my choice, still I was rather into Mahayana (and Taoism) than Theravada. 95% of people in my country are Theravada Buddhists. And Theravada and Mahayana happened just because of different interpretations.

Once I wrote a short story (never got published) about this. The (paddling) boat was sinking in the middle of the river. There were 5 people on it: a monk, a woman and her baby, a young man and the boat's owner (paddler). The boat's owner and the (Theravada) monk started swimming to the shore while the young man still tried to save the woman and her baby. The first two survived but the latter all drown. As it was intended to be a fiction, so I didn't give any more hint.

Mahayana attacked Theravada that we should help other before we got enlightenment, and because of that kind of mind we would get our enlightenment (frankly speaking, Buddha never taught that). Theravada believe in more practical way that if we cannot help ourselves first, how could we help other? We will only drown with others in the end. And if the young man succeeded to reach the shore, not only he could save himself but he might be able to look for another boat and came back to help. And that's the big different between the monk and the boat owner. The latter only cared about himself.

Anyway, though my spiritual path started from Theravada Buddhism, I still found that Mahayana was a precious gem. Though it might not really what Buddha taught but it really can enhance anyone's mind on their spiritual path.

I have to say good night here. It's almost morning.

Thank you for sharing part of your journey.  I know very little about the specifics of Buddhism.  What part of the world do you live in?  I am not inclined to follow a specific path.  All of the great masters started on their own path.  I now do the same.  I work toward enlightenment in my own way.  For me that is best.

Your story illustrates what I've found in Christianity.  Those who are the most religious are the least likely to help someone in need.  It is the individual who decides to make the difference.

[donq]

S: "Thank you for sharing part of your journey."
-No, Thank you. I already bored my friends here (about telling my journey). So, you are my new victim. :-)

S: "I know very little about the specifics of Buddhism."
-No worry. No one here is a Buddhist. And I hardly talk about Buddhism here. Honestly, I'm not an expert on Buddhism. I know only I want/need to know. As it's said (here, in my country), those who got bachelor's degree know about agriculture; those who got master's degree know about garden plants and those got doctor's degree, well, know only about pea. Though I never got doctor's degree but I didn't waste my time to know neither about agriculture, nor garden plants, but went straight to only pea (mindfulness in Buddhism).

S: What part of the world do you live in?
"I (am a native) and live in Thailand all my life.

S: "All of the great masters started on their own path. I now do the same. I work toward enlightenment in my own way. For me that is best."
-Agree. Let me say again that "everyone is unique". Each disease needs specific cure. There's no panacea. If you teach a lazy man to meditate, well, he will fall asleep for sure. So, each individual must find his/her own way. And whether Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan was real or fake (fiction), this quote is still (and always) a good (spiritual) inspiration:

“Anything is one of a million paths. Therefore you must always keep in mind that a path is only a path; if you feel you should not follow it, you must not stay with it under any conditions...Only then will you know that any path is only a path and there is no affront, to oneself or to others, in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you to do. But your decision to keep on the path or to leave it must be free of fear or ambition. I warn you. Look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think necessary...
"This question is... Does this path have a heart? If it does, the path is good; if it doesn't, it is of no use. Both paths lead nowhere; but one has a heart, the other doesn't. One makes for a joyful journey; as long as you follow it, you are one with it. The other will make you curse your life. One makes you strong; the other weakens you."
-The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge

S: Your story illustrates what I've found in Christianity. Those who are the most religious are the least likely to help someone in need. It is the individual who decides to make the difference.
-Agree. When a religion becomes institution, it's not a religion anymore. Instead of helping someone in need, they only want to help their institution, even attack other institutions (for protection of their beliefs). That being said, I really don't like to cast the first stone (even in Buddhism). I think words only bring us to nowhere. And I do believe in what is said in Ecclesiastes (King James Version):

"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
"That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered."

I also believe in what Confucius said:

The words of a man who plans revolt are confused. The words of a man who entertains doubt in his inmost heart are ramified. The words of men of good fortune are few. Excited men use man words. Slanderers of good men are roundabout in their words. The words of a man who lost his standpoint are twisted.
-from Ta Chuan (Great commentary of the I Ching)

[sentience]

donq, I like all you have to say here, including all the quotes.  The only time I read Carlos Castaneda's Teaching of Don Juan was in Journey to Ixlan.  It was both profound and made me feel like I needed to be stoned to understand it fully. You apparently have a good understanding a multiple religious/spiritual philosophies.  The first time I became aware of Thailand was when missionaries from the church I grew up in went there to convert people to Christianity.  Another person I knew from my church was a nurse and went there to help people with their physical ailments. It was my understanding at that time that Thailand was a good place.

[aceofcups]

I hadn't read this string before... nice to see it active,,, Hi Monty...


I read a few of the Richard Bach books many years ago... I had a record version of the book read by Richard Harris (first Dumbledore) I really enjoyed it I remember.. just checked youtube... seems they have two versions - the one by Harris and one read by Bach himself.

[sentience]

Feb 17, 2021 11:39:15 GMT aceofcups said:

I hadn't read this string before... nice to see it active,,, Hi Monty...


I read a few of the Richard Bach books many years ago... I had a record version of the book read by Richard Harris (first Dumbledore) I really enjoyed it I remember.. just checked youtube... seems they have two versions - the one by Harris and one read by Bach himself.

Thank you aceofcups.  Thank you for the links.  That's kind of you.  I have the recorded version of the book read by Richard Harris.  It is wonderful, but is not the complete book.  Richard probably read it himself because the other one was incomplete.  I also have the movie on a VCR tape.  I have the book as well.  I used to buy them and give them to people I thought they might help.  To some extent it always felt like all I needed to know came to me via a little seagull who dared to be himself, despite what others thought.  Richard's editor Eleanor Friede said that scenes for the book appeared to him in his mind as a movie.  He found the words and wrote it down.  The publishing world at the time called it Eleanor's folly.  She believed in it, and it sold millions.  I've also read a number of his other books.  They too had a profound influence on my life.  Richards was a conduit for the universe.