Some Spiritual Questions

[aceofcups]

Some Spiritual questions

There is a saying " To Live in the World but Not of It" ---  What if anything does that mean to you?  Is the goal to make earth life perfect?  If yes.. what is your ideal of a perfect life on Earth?

OR

Is physical life a school of learning, to awaken wisdom and compassion?   Is Earth life a veil of suffering - which needs to be "transcended" to help us awaken compassion?    Realizing that physical, emotional and mental pleasures of life are but temporary?  Are they to you?

what your your thoughts on theses questions?

peace
ace

[sparklekaz]

Hi Ace,

Great questions.

To your first question. When I think of what I believe would make the world perfect, its a bit of a mind blowing question. First of all I think everyone's idea of perfection would be different. And honestly, does something need to be perfect to be wonderful. People are rarely perfect are they. And often it is their imperfections that make them so appealing and unique. And is it not the diversity of life that makes it so interesting.

In terms of living in a perfect world. The image that comes to mind is of Star Trek. Please don't laugh, I know it sounds strange. But to explain, as a really young girl it was my favourite programme. It was set in the 23rd century and mankind had moved beyond wars, and competing for resources and wealth. Everyone was taken care of. Everything equally shared. All, had their place and something unique to offer. Humanity had reached out and travelled the stars, encountering new worlds and life forms. It saw itself as one, and that the preservation of the Earth was paramount. There was no bias or prejudice. No inequality.

As natural pioneers we wanted to seek out new frontiers; not to conquer, but to learn. To preserve our own species and to grow in wisdom. Not only that, but we formed alliances and made friends with beings from other worlds. Discovering that we all had something to offer to each other. That to me would be a perfect world. No hunger and poverty. No wars and destruction, just humanity growing, spreading its wings, and channeling its energy and learning into creating something beautiful; something that would last and endure. And one day if it were to all end, thousands of years later, those who would find the remnants of our civilization and home world, would see us as an example of a species that had crawled up out of the mud and became a people to whom they could look up to, admire and wish to emulate. That we had finally got it right.

Love and light
Kaz

[mojomojo]

Hello Ace,

To live in the world but not of it.
Reminds me of times when I would go for a walk, I felt like, I was here physically, and moving through, people and traffic every where, but no one seemed to be aware of my presence, watching yourself going through the motions, but totally indifferent.
I do believe it’s all about creating heaven on Earth, which can only come about through a shift in consciousness, Star Trek example, spot on.

Physical life a school of learning, yes.
Earth life a veil of suffering, only if you want it to be.
Pleasures of life temporary, very much so, never had any great desire to obtain anything, and find it very amusing watching others do so, as their appetite grows even further.
The most unhappy man I have ever met, was a millionaire, the happiest was one who was indifferent.

[gruntal]

One of the most obvious answers - which for me as a Libertarian is pretty easy to say - is the system really does not work. I mean nice try and best wishes but don't bet your life on it. I don't say this out of arrogance or spite but just because human beings never developed a system that was infallible. Humans themselves are a cornucopia of best intent mixed with corruption. There is an alternative to being naive or aloof and that is the so-called "still small voice" we are supposed to seek if we can hear it. Much experimentation is required to build a perfect product and I suspect by that time the physical probably has crumbled to dust anyway. But that doesn't mean inevitable failure. To me it means your never going to find perfect solutions in the conventional sense.

You have to look elsewhere. The way is not a secret or hidden. It just isn't very popular with the "world". Not yet. That is why the vanguard oft feels so lonely and rejected. You can still sit down with the others and have fun. And not try to be a judge ...

[donq]

Hi Charlie,

A quick reply here.

"To Live in the World but Not of It"?

Hmm...how about to live with my mother but not with her? hahaha

Lving with my mother is unbearable. Still, it's unavoidable (for me). How could I eascape? Sometimes I fantasized that if only I won a lottery, I would hire a nurse to take care of her, and I would be free to do whatever I wanted to do.
Well, a fantasy is only a fantasy, right? But facing the reality is, like I already said, (so) unbearable.
So I think that, as you said, "to be transcended"" is the very key. Whenever I could go beyond lving with my mother, whether I really live with her or not would lose its meaning.

Well, it's a lot easier said than done, really!

P.S. I'm in hurry. Will be come back to read our friends' posts later.

[hera]

I think we have all pondered this question many times Ace and it's great to have the question posed here

For me it's not an 'either or' but more a combination of the two suggestions you offered.
We need to 'live in the world but not if it', by doing our best to transcend the common human traits of e.g. (just a few) greed, selfishness, anger, jealousy, pleasure seeking, entitlement, etc., because all are temporary, by adopting spiritual practices which aid our movement closer to a relationship with our inner being, which is, I believe, God. Not Godlike, but actually a part of God and which connects all life here on earth.

We are in the process of evolving towards a point where those human traits mentioned before will no longer be necessary and then we will have reached Nirvana, so yes this is temporary Imo. Each of us have chosen which lessons need to be learned before we come back again, we may not learn them for several lifetimes, but eventually we will and then there will be peace.

[donq]

Hi again everyone,

I do like this thread. So let me make salad from (mix) this thread like the following:

Ace,"Is the goal to make earth life perfect?"

Kaz,"I think everyone's idea of perfection would be different. And honestly, does something need to be perfect to be wonderful?...As natural pioneers we wanted to seek out new frontiers; not to conquer, but to learn...Discovering that we all had something to offer to each other. That to me would be a perfect world."

Gruntal, (neh) "the system really does not work...human beings never developed a system that was infallible. Humans themselves are a cornucopia of best intent mixed with corruption."

(Well, then...)

Ace,"Is physical life a school of learning, to awaken wisdom and compassion? Is Earth life a veil of suffering - which needs to be "transcended" to help us awaken compassion?

Mojo, "Physical life a school of learning, yes. Earth life a veil of suffering, only if you want it to be...I do believe it’s all about creating heaven on Earth, which can only come about through a shift in consciousness."

Hera, "For me it's not an 'either or' but more a combination of the two suggestions you offered. We need to 'live in the world but not if it', by doing our best to transcend the common human traits...by adopting spiritual practices which aid our movement closer to a relationship with our inner being..."

Gruntal, "You have to look elsewhere. The way is not a secret or hidden..You can still sit down with the others and have fun. And not try to be a judge..."

.................

I've had glimpsed on another thread (still no time to read all posts there), I think there's also a connection here. Buddhism was devided in two (Theravada and the Mahayana) becuase of these very reasons. Theravada believes how could you help others if you still could not help yourself yet? And watched pot never boils, right? Besides, if you wait a bit longer, until you are really ripe enough, you mignt be able to help a lot more. Mahayana believes life is short and we don't have that luxury. You need to help other along the way, even need to help other first. That's the only way and the way of Bodhisattva (a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so out of compassion in order to save suffering beings).
Well, Mahayana sounds so cool, right? From some decades of my experiment, I found that Both Theravada and Mahayana were right. It's selfish not to try to help other. That's not the right spritiaul way (and no way to free yourself from your ego). But we have to be beware that, if you are not a good swimmer yet, don't try to help others, or you and them would only doom/drown.


P.S. Recently it seems the forum's spelling check doesn't work. I do apologize for any bad speelings (more than usual).

[aceofcups]

Thank you Karen, Robert, George, Hera and Dong for your thoughtful responses to the questions posed.

peace
ace