Rebirth - Do You Only Live Once?

[sparklekaz]

James Huston (left) was the only pilot on the aircraft carrier Natoma Bay to die in the battle of Iwo Jima. More than five decades later, a two-year-old named James Leninger (right) talked about flying off a boat named “Natoma” near Iwo Jima and made drawings of fighter planes getting shot down.


Hi everyone,

The subject of 'Rebirth' or 'Reincarnation', has always fascinated me. I came across this article recently in the online magazine Lion's Roar their ethos, Buddhist Wisdom for our time; And found it such an interesting read. For me, it presented some pretty compelling proof of 'life before this one'. I hope you enjoy reading it, and would love to hear all your thoughts on it.


On March 3, 1945, James Huston, a twenty-one-year-old U.S. Navy pilot, flew his final flight. He took off from the USS Natoma Bay, an aircraft carrier engaged in the battle of Iwo Jima. Huston was flying with a squadron of eight pilots, including his friend Jack Larsen, to strike a nearby Japanese transport vessel. Huston’s plane was shot in the nose and crashed in the ocean.

Fifty-three years later, in April of 1998, a couple from Louisiana named Bruce and Andrea Leninger gave birth to a boy. They named him James.

When he was twenty-two months old, James and his father visited a flight museum, and James discovered a fascination with planes—especially World War II aircraft, which he would stare at in awe. James got a video about a Navy flight squad, which he watched repeatedly for weeks.


One of James Leninger’s drawings of fighter planes.

Within two months, James started saying the phrase, “Airplane crash on fire,” including when he saw his father off on trips at the airport. He would slam his toy planes nose-first into the coffee table, ruining the surface with dozens of scratches.

James started having nightmares, first with screaming, and then with words like, “Airplane crash on fire! Little man can’t get out!”, while thrashing and kicking his legs.



Eventually, James talked to his parents about the crash. James said, “Before I was born, I was a pilot and my airplane got shot in the engine, and it crashed in the water, and that’s how I died.” James said that he flew off of a boat and his plane was shot by the Japanese. When his parents asked the name of the boat, he said “Natoma.”

When his parents asked James who “little man” was, he would say “James” or “me.” When his parents asked if he could remember anyone else, he offered the name “Jack Larsen.” When James was two and a half, he saw a photo of Iwo Jima in a book, and said “My plane got shot down there, Daddy.”

When James Leninger was eleven years old, Jim Tucker came to visit him and his family. Tucker, a psychiatrist from the University of Virginia, is one of the world’s leading researchers on the scientific study of reincarnation or rebirth. He spent two days interviewing the Leninger family, and says that James represents one of the strongest cases of seeming reincarnation that he has ever investigated.

“You’ve got this child with nightmares focusing on plane crashes, who says he was shot down by the Japanese, flew off a ship called ‘Natoma,’ had a friend there named Jack Larsen, his plane got hit in the engine, crashed in the water, quickly sank, and said he was killed at Iwo Jima. We have documentation for all of this,” says Tucker in an interview.

“It turns out there was one guy from the ship Natoma Bay who was killed during the Iwo Jima operations, and everything we have documented from James’ statements fits for this guy’s life.”


As a toddler, James Leninger was fascinated with airplanes and knew obscure details about WWII aircraft.

Jim Tucker grew up in North Carolina. He was a Southern Baptist, but when he started training in psychiatry, he left behind any religious or spiritual worldview. Years later, he read about the work of a psychiatrist named Ian Stevenson in the local paper.

Stevenson was a well-respected academic who left his position as chair of psychiatry at the University of Virginia in the 1960s to undertake a full-time study of reincarnation. Though his papers never got published in any mainstream scientific journals, he received appreciative reviews in respected publications like The Journal of the American Medical Association, The American Journal of Psychology, and The Lancet. Before his death in 2007, Stevenson handed over much of his work to Tucker at the University of Virginia’s Division of Perceptual Studies.

The first step in researching the possibility of rebirth is the collection of reports of past life memories. Individually, any one report, like James Leninger’s, proves little. But when thousands of the cases are analyzed collectively, they can yield compelling evidence.

After decades of research, the Division of Perceptual Studies now houses 2,500 detailed records of children who have reported memories of past lives. Tucker has written two books summarizing the research, Life Before Life and Return to Life. In Life Before Life, Tucker writes, “The best explanation for the strongest cases is that memories, emotions, and even physical injuries can sometimes carry over from one life to the next.”

Children in rebirth cases generally start making statements about past lives between the ages of two and four and stop by the age of six or seven, the age when most children lose early childhood memories.

A typical case of Tucker’s starts with a communication from a parent whose child has described a past life. Parents often have no prior interest in reincarnation, and they get in touch with Tucker out of distress—their child is describing things there is no logical way they could have experienced. Tucker corresponds with the parents to find out more. If it sounds like a strong case, with the possibility of identifying a previous life, he proceeds.

‘This is not like what you might see on TV, where someone says they were Cleopatra. These kids are typically talking about being an ordinary person.’
When Tucker meets with a family, he interviews the parents, the child, and other potential informants. He fills out an eight-page registration form, and collects records, photographs, and evidence. Eventually, he codes more than two hundred variables for each case into a database.

In the best cases, the researcher meets the family before they’ve identified a suspected previous identity. If the researchers can identify the previous personality (PP) first, they have the opportunity to perform controlled tests.

In a recent case, Tucker met a family whose son remembered fighting in the jungle in the Vietnam War and getting killed in action. The boy gave a name for the PP. When the parents looked up the name, they found that it was a real person. Before doing any further research, they contacted Tucker.

Tucker did a controlled test with the boy, who was five. He showed him eight pairs of photos. In each pair, one photo was related to the soldier’s life and one was not—such as a photo of his high school and a photo of a high school he didn’t go to. For two of the pairs, the boy made no choice. In the remaining six, he chose correctly.

In another case, a seven-year-old girl named Nicole remembered living in a small town, on “C Street,” in the early 1900s. She remembered much of the town having been destroyed by a fire and often talked of wanting to go home. Through research, Tucker hypothesized Nicole was describing Virginia City, Nevada, a small mining town that was destroyed by fire in 1875, where the main road was “C Street.” Tucker traveled to Virginia City with Nicole and her mother. As they drove down the road into the town, Nicole remarked, “They didn’t have these black roads when I lived here before.”

Nicole had described strange memories of her previous life. She said there were trees floating in the water. She said horses walked down the streets. And she talked about a “hooley dance.” In the town, they discovered that there had once been a massive network of river flumes used to transport logs to the town to construct nearby mineshafts. They discovered that wild horses wandered through the streets of the town. And that a “hooley” is a type of Irish dance that was popular there.

“We weren’t able to identify a specific individual,” says Tucker. “But there are parts of the case that are hard to dismiss.”

As her plane was lifting off from Nevada, Nicole burst into tears. “I don’t want to leave here,” she said.

Her mother asked if she really believed Virginia City was her home. “No,” said Nicole. “I know it was.”

Tucker is trying to investigate scientifically a question that has traditionally been the province of religion: what happens after we die? Two of the world’s largest religions, Hinduism and Buddhism, argue that we are reborn.

Certain schools of Buddhism don’t particularly concern themselves with the idea of rebirth, and some modern analysts argue that the Buddha taught it simply as a matter of convenience because it was the accepted belief in the India of his time. Most Buddhists, however, see it as central to the teachings on the suffering of samsara—the wheel of cyclic existence—and nirvana, the state of enlightenment in which one is free from the karma that drives rebirth (although one may still choose to be reborn in order to follow the bodhisattva path of compassion).

Buddhists generally prefer the term “rebirth” to “reincarnation” to differentiate between the Hindu and Buddhist views. The concept of reincarnation generally refers to the transmigration of an atman, or soul, from lifetime to lifetime. This is the Hindu view, and it is how reincarnation is generally understood in the West.

Instead, Buddhism teaches the doctrine of anatman, or non-self, which says there is no permanent, unchanging entity such as a soul. In reality, we are an ever-changing collection of consciousnesses, feelings, perceptions, and impulses that we struggle to hold together to maintain the illusion of a self.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi Karen,

Long time, no see. My excuse is that recently it's hard to approach our forum.:-)

Good post, again. I always impressed whenever I hear you talking about Buddhism.

This topic is kind of a tough one (or maybe toughest?) For example, I've been a Buddhist for almost 60 years, as far as I can tell there are more than 90 % Buddhists whow believe in “reincarnation” (whether they really "know" about Buddhism or not). Surprisingly, most of those who are not Buddhists or have nothing to do with spirituality at all also believe in reincarnation. To be blunt here, they still want to have their second chance, on their another lives. They don't want to be erased or nihiled.
Here I'd like to talk about the less then 10% of Buddhists who don't belive about transmigration of an atman, or soul, from lifetime to lifetime.

From what I understand after I have been seriously studied, researched on Buddhism (including talking to some venerable monks) and practiced mindfulness for more than 30 years, here my take is:
[Anyway, I have to warn anyone who reading this that the following paragraphs, though they are summarized from all of I've known but they will be my personal view and my view only. hahaha]

1. If I died on the ground down here and later there was a tree growing from the very spot, on the one hand, it doesn't mean I (my soul) reincarnate to be that tree; on the other hand it doesn't mean there's no connection between the tree and I either. To put it bluntly, some part of my body became fertilizer for that tree. hahaha

2. About recalling the past lives, my question is, how could one forseeing/predicting the future? After doing serious study for a long time and got lots of personal experiences, my take is that forseeing the future is real (I'll skip its detail here or it will be too long). So, I believe recalling the previous lives might be true (though I have no personal experience about it yet). Again, how it is would be the (very) long story. hahaha

I do like what you said:

"Buddhism teaches the doctrine of anatman, or non-self, which says there is no permanent, unchanging entity such as a soul. In reality, we are an ever-changing collection of consciousnesses, feelings, perceptions, and impulses that we struggle to hold together to maintain the illusion of a self."

There's one interpretation on this conerning what we are talking about: one can rebirth so many times within a day: this moment he's an angel, then the next moment he becomes a devil. :-)

The more I study Buddhism the more I found (or I think? lol) the real personality of the Buddha. He was a very simple man! This teaching was simple and very basic. And he always warned about the two extremities.

Le me end this post with a story in Tipitaka I happened to hear it again recently:


There was a story of a young man meeting a monk who was on an alms-round. He was very much impressed by his noble countenance. So he respectfully approached the monk and asked who his teacher was, what doctrine his teacher taught. The monk humbly said that he was just a novice and could not said much. The young man still begged that the monk to tell him anything anyway, more or less. The monk then quoted a short stanza connected with the Four Noble Truths:

"The Buddha has declared the cause and also the cessation of all phenomena which arise from a cause. This is the doctrine held by the Great monks."

When the verse was only half-way through, the young man attained Sotapatti Fruition (he first of the four stages of enlightenment).
P.S. Hope you and everyone here are fine.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

It is good to see, I thought we had lost you for a while. Yes we have had some problems with the forum, and got disconnected for a while. We had to put a link in for a small forum, we have on the main site. It allowed people to see what was happening, and post if they wanted to. But it was not the same I know. Anyway, if you type www.godlight.proboards.com and save it, it should bring you straight to this forum.

I hope you are keeping well my friend. Again, it is good to see you. I really enjoyed reading your reply, it shines another light on this fascinating topic.

Love and light
Kaz

[gruntal]

It has been opined that the "one life" theory really doesn't hold enough potential for much if any spirituality. I won't get into that. A more advanced perspective would not even admit to only one soul path - to the extent there are a number of us walking around in different realities that are one and the same. Just how scattered we are I can't get into now or have a hard time comprehending. I do have a silly example though that really made me think.

I often have dreams I am in a tight place and have trouble breathing. I might be a kid in a bed in the middle and feel like I am not getting enough air. I always presumed I was trapped in a pyramid during my stint in ancient Egypt and my present congestive heart failure and sleep apnea is bring back past memories. Everybody has some claustrophobia anyway. The only problem with this theory is in the past I would sometimes climb under the house to service the plumbing or heating. On my hands and knees it was eerie to have the floor - in my position my ceiling - only a foot above my head. I could not stand up and run if an earthquake happened. That never bothered me and now I never dream of that.

I was told at a meeting in a past life I was buried alive in a snow drift! They didn't know of my nightmares. They really don't know much about me except I show up at the meetings but don't talk much. That puts the dreams and nightmares with much different meaning. It is not claustrophobia or drowning or even asphyxiation as it is just being surrounded and confined and unable to ever get out or do anything except slowly run out of air and pass out.

I knew there was something to my dreams and nightmares but I never thought of an avalanche ! Now I know ...

[donq]

Hi Karen,

Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate it.

Hi George,

You said,:

"It has been opined that the 'one life; theory really doesn't hold enough potential for much if any spirituality. I won't get into that. A more advanced perspective would not even admit to only one soul path - to the extent there are a number of us walking around in different realities that are one and the same."

You see? That was what I was afraid of. And that was why I stressed that it was my personal view and my view only (even I already said it was only in the context of Buddism).

Let's go back to Karen's post again, especially these two paragraphs:

Tucker writes, “The best explanation for the strongest cases is that memories, emotions, and even physical injuries can sometimes carry over from one life to the next.”
And
A typical case of Tucker’s starts with a communication from a parent whose child has described a past life. Parents often have no prior interest in reincarnation, and they get in touch with Tucker out of distress—their child is describing things there is no logical way they could have experienced. Tucker corresponds with the parents to find out more. If it sounds like a strong case, with the possibility of identifying a previous life, he proceeds.

Okay, I'm going to focus only the point of this thread.

I more than agree with Tucker that "memories, emotions, and even physical injuries can sometimes carry over from one life to the next" and "their child is describing things there is no logical way they could have experienced."

My only question is whose memories? The is the toughest one. And in the long history of spirituality, no one could really know for sure, right? In the contex of Buddhism, the Buddha himself always warned about this that you should not waste you time and effort trying to know about it. It's never ending quest.

I'ts good to see you George. :-)

[mojomojo]

I think we have to be very careful of what we accept as truth, anything that reinforces our beliefs will always be glady taken onboard, it is a very important statement, that we can never fully understand and to even try is futile.
Children in their early years are very open, and as, has already been said, there is no proof it is the child’s memories.
We are led to believe this type of thing is on the increase, but is it because, in the past it may have been discouraged (fear of mental health or possession),whereas now we are more accepting, there is also the downside to human nature, and the amount of books written of similar experiences has escalated, whether this is proof or not, who can tell.
My younger sisters son, often commented to her, that she was much nicer than his other mother, my sister in laws, son, while they were driving through Donegal, passed a house and declared he used to live there, and started naming off the members of the family, they never looked into it.
In a workshop, we did past life regression, and deep in meditation, I saw myself as a monk, another time as a soldier on a battle field, but the mind is very powerful, and may give us what we desire, in my opinion unless it spills over into this reality, it is in your head only, we also did a meditation looking into the future, everyone came up blank, except for one, who was in a museum looking at the Eiffel Tower.
Sometimes we can connect to another, and be aware of what is happening to them, even though they are many miles away, but this only proves, we are connected in some way, it has been said that thought patterns can linger, maybe the more open, young, tap into these more easily and then again maybe reincarnation is true.

[aceofcups]

The Esoteric understanding is quite complex but here is quick overview of some of their understandings.

From an Esoteric Point of view we are multi-dimensional being. Ultimately we are ALL ONE with Spirit, the Godhead, The Absolute, Atma or other names used by different religions or spiritual groups use to explain the "ALL IN ALL".

Manifesting from this Absolute Consciousness are different levels-fields of consciousness and forms within our being.  Evolving in a vast Divine Plan.

The Soul, the Higher Self, the Casual state of consciousness and others names which are used to describe our True Individuality.   Souls are connected with Spirit but also Evolving within us over multiple lifetimes and experiences.     But only certain vibrational levels of experiences can ever enter into this Higher Self. The rest ( or lets say lower vibrational experiences) are left as Karmic seeds to be worked with in other lives to seek balance through other personalities, other incarnations.

Our experiences we have on our physical, emotional, and mental levels of consciousness we have in any one life makes up our personality.   Our Souls' makeup is so much more then just the experiences we have in any one life.    After we pass over - our consciousness and where and how long a "person - with remnants of last personality exists depends on many factors and can be a bit different for different people.   Many people live on inner planes of consciousness are still somewhat connected to their earth life which just passed. Some are traveling ( living for a certain amount of time) through astral and mental fields.   Time varies is concept and in relationship to earth-time.

Personality past-life experiences are easier to connect to on lower inner planes.   As one evolves over multiple lives one learns to connect more and more with one's Soul- and at that level individual remembrances are somewhat connected to universal remembrances.

The longer time spent in true Soul consciousness, the harder it is to remember past life individual personalities per-say.    A person who is quickly reborn for various inner reasons and choices may find it easy to connect with past life remembrances.   There are "reflective" remembrances seen in the Astral which some people align with in past life readings... but the nature of the astral is sometimes a mixture of real and semi-real -  with imagination and even fantasy coming forth for some.   The real Remembrances of past life's existence is in the "Akashic" (recording field) which resides in a higher vibration level of consciousness within\ then the Astral.  Closer to the Soul or Casual states of consciousness.

if all or some of this doesn't resonate with you... just take it as the ramblings of a Fool. The Tarot Fool of course .

peace
ace

[sentience]

It's been a long time since someone responded to this thread. I'll take a shot anyway. My answer is, no one really knows. There are those who absolutely know they know. But they don't. None of us do. It's like with all spiritual beliefs. We can set up tests for ourselves and others. We can become convinced to our very core that we are right. We do the best be can. Sometimes people believe what comforts them.

When I was a very young child I would have recurring nightmares about nearly getting killed on a cobblestone street. I was on a bus, I had to get off the bus and run across a cobblestone street and get into a stone building before the sky turned red or I knew I would die. I was running across the street. The sky turned red, and I died face down in the street. I started having these dreams when I was under five. They terrified me. I got to where I could wake myself up earlier and earlier in the dreams. Finally they ended when I was about nine. We did not have a television. We did not go to movies...it was considered a sin. At that age I had not learned about war. Years later I realized I could have been in an area of Europe that was bombed during WWII. The bombs hit, and I died in the street. I was born this time around not too long after WWII.

Now there is no way to know if that really happened. But it could have.

I had a couple of cats that I believe were reincarnations of my two dogs, by their behaviors, when the dogs died, when the cats were born and who they befriended even when they were very afraid of most people.

I have no way to know that was true either. But it could be.

[donq]

Hi Sentience,

You said, "My answer is, no one really knows."
So agree. The Buddha already warned us that it's waste of the time trying to figure out about this. No one really know. Those who died cannot (really) come back to tell us. And we haven't died yet, so we don't know.

Anyway, what I"m going to say something that might be so rubbish. Just to have a friendly conversation here.
Warning: (Spiritual) reader discretion is advised!

Before talking about the past lives, let me talk about the the future ones first.

I posted on another thread about Déjà vu that a neurologist said, "Déjà vu occurs because the brain uses both a 'fast' process of immediate sensation and memory, and a 'slower' process to integrate past memories and present experiences." Some neurologists just called it, “false memory”.
So, time sequences is like this: I have been there the first time, seen something, then dissociated myself, and then looked back and seen/realized my feeling of what I've just seen? (there might be a problem of time sequences as sometimes there was "long" separation of the time between them, says, days or even years.

Does the above process work backward, in case of rebirth? For the sake of "friendly" conversation, let me call it "“false memory” here. Still, how could we have those false memories of another persons?

Hmm...here comes a rubbish (in the sense that I'm talking about what I honestly don't know). I think those memories imprinted somewhere on another planes?. Those who connected to those planes/states/dimensions (electromagnetic field?), somehow got those imprinted memories?

Hmm...so your cats might get the memories of your dogs from the Purr-fect plane?

I cannot say about other people, but as for me, I don't know and will never know.

[sentience]

In reply to Buddha...who is to say what is a waste of time?  I think about a lot of things that some would think are a waste of time.  We can learn and grow by examining things. I thought my way out of the religious teachings of my youth and abandoned them.  Our scientific communities have thought about a lot of things, and now they've developed ways to actually explore the universe, albeit close in, relatively speaking.  Some people believe that their loved ones do come back and talk to them after they have died.  I've had such experiences.  Again there is no way to verify it, but to me some of it is real.  To me, we are spirits inhabiting a body.  The same would be with my cats.  They are spirits.  They would bring their memories with them.  If what I suspect is true, their spirits inhabited a dog body first and then a cat body.  After my dog Brandy died, I had a vision of her standing outside the gate to my property, like she wanted to come in, but couldn't.  I told her that I would love to have her come back, but if she did she would need to come back as a black cat.  My husband is allergic to dogs and most cats.  He is not allergic to black or Siamese cats.  Three months later one of his fishing buddies asked him if he wanted some kittens.  They were black. The buddy even told us which ones he thought would work out best...two of them played together.  We adopted the two of them.  Is this just wishful thinking?  Could be, but I don't think so.

I don't know about deja vu.  Just because a neurologist has decided something is a false memory, doesn't mean it is.  Science often takes the soul out of things.  To me what scientists call dark energy which is a large chunk of what the universe is made of could be cosmic consciousness.  They only call it dark because they don't know what it is.  I watch a lot of science documentaries.

Thanks for your response.  I enjoy a good exchange. 

[hera]

Do we only live once?

Very difficult to prove of course, but i'm in the 'don't need proof' camp, as I feel it in my bones. Total conviction that this is just one of many, many lives all will experience until we have learned all the lessons needed to move on to something richer and more meaningful permanently. I should say here that I believe ee have brief interludes in that place between lives.

This isn't something I was raised with, as I was brought up in a traditional Christian household, attended a church school and was inculcated with the belief that we just get one shot at this and we either pass or fail and go to heaven or hell when we pass.
It never sat right with me and, as I said earlier, I have certain knowledge somehow that I/We are here to learn and will continue learning until we no longer need to return to this earthly plane.

It's not a concept that gives me a great deal of happiness, as this hasn't been a happy lifetime for me and i'd far rather believe that I wouldn't have to return and possibly repeat certain experiences, but I am convinced I will.

[sentience]

So you were raised like I was.  One of the things that bothered me about it, after the fact, was that if God is a jerk who will damn us if we mess up, why would I want to believe in him?  The system is all about control. IMO.  I choose to believe we don't have to come back if we don't want to.  We are in charge of our progress and what experiences we choose.  I've had a difficult life this time too.  I'm grateful for the things I've learned.  But I don't want to do that again.

[hera]

Feb 18, 2021 22:16:41 GMT sentience said:

So you were raised like I was.  One of the things that bothered me about it, after the fact, was that if God is a jerk who will damn us if we mess up, why would I want to believe in him?  The system is all about control. IMO.  I choose to believe we don't have to come back if we don't want to.  We are in charge of our progress and what experiences we choose.  I've had a difficult life this time too.  I'm grateful for the things I've learned.  But I don't want to do that again.

I agree, Christianity and most formal religions are about control and power and unfortunately many are unable to see that.
However, I also feel that the prophets who are used as figureheads in those religions did come with a message that would help humanity live more peacefully if we could see past the mountains of dogma used to sell the religion.

I also agree, right now the thought of coming back and doing it all again is abhorrent, but my belief is that when we move on from here and are able to see our journey in a more detached, holistic fashion then we will very probably choose to come back.

There have been very few through history who have lived happy, pain free lives and yet here we are with a planet full of souls back again learning lessons and growing spiritually.

Just my 2c

[sentience]

Feb 18, 2021 22:41:17 GMT hera said:

Feb 18, 2021 22:16:41 GMT sentience said:

So you were raised like I was.  One of the things that bothered me about it, after the fact, was that if God is a jerk who will damn us if we mess up, why would I want to believe in him?  The system is all about control. IMO.  I choose to believe we don't have to come back if we don't want to.  We are in charge of our progress and what experiences we choose.  I've had a difficult life this time too.  I'm grateful for the things I've learned.  But I don't want to do that again.

I agree, Christianity and most formal religions are about control and power and unfortunately many are unable to see that.
However, I also feel that the prophets who are used as figureheads in those religions did come with a message that would help humanity live more peacefully if we could see past the mountains of dogma used to sell the religion.

I also agree, right now the thought of coming back and doing it all again is abhorrent, but my belief is that when we move on from here and are able to see our journey in a more detached, holistic fashion then we will very probably choose to come back.

There have been very few through history who have lived happy, pain free lives and yet here we are with a planet full of souls back again learning lessons and growing spiritually.

Just my 2c

I'm thinking maybe I've learned enough that I will choose to move on.  Did you ever see the movie Defending Your Life with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep?  It made an excellent point.  And it was funny.  I'm also seeing that a lot of the souls are not growing. If they were, we would not be so close to extinction because of what we've done to this place.  So many refuse to see it.  I don't think life will be viable here, much longer.  

[mojomojo]

As regards reincarnation, I do not know, and to be honest don’t really want to know, if we do come around again we will not remember previous life experiences, so each earth experience will be as the first. But someone mentioned, we don’t know, as with all things spiritual.
I know I’am going a little off topic here, but it is possible to get concrete proof of spirits intervention in our lives, one hundred per cent, no doubt, proof.

[sentience]

Feb 19, 2021 8:28:21 GMT mojomojo said:

As regards reincarnation, I do not know, and to be honest don’t really want to know, if we do come around again we will not remember previous life experiences, so each earth experience will be as the first. But someone mentioned, we don’t know, as with all things spiritual.
I know I’am going a little off topic here, but it is possible to get concrete proof of spirits intervention in our lives, one hundred per cent, no doubt, proof.

IMO there is no way to get absolute proof.  I've certainly had a number of experiences that seemed like proof, but there's no way to know for sure, as far as I've been able to tell.  So, if something happens that I think is proof I have to decide whether or not to believe it's proof.  I think it's that way with most things.  It some ways it all seems like a gamble.  Sometimes the more I want absolute certainty, the more elusive it is.

[aceofcups]

Hi Hera... so nice to see you back on-line. Hope all is well, or as well as it can be... under the energy influences we went through in 2020 and all. Still keeping up with the astrological energy influences of last year and the new year.?

peace
ace

[hera]

Feb 19, 2021 21:38:13 GMT aceofcups said:

Hi Hera... so nice to see you back on-line. Hope all is well, or as well as it can be... under the energy influences we went through in 2020 and all. Still keeping up with the astrological energy influences of last year and the new year.?

peace
ace

Hi Ace,

Just a couple of things which I know will mean a lot to you.
T. Pluto conjunct N. Sun, Square N. Moon and opposite N Uranus and Jupiter. Oh, also sextile N Asc and quincunx N Pluto, so just a few heavy influences going on .

In relation to this thread I'm telling myself I chose this and 'this too will pass', but it's obviously very testing and right now i'm not even beginning to understand what it is I need to learn, I guess i'll know that with the passage of time.

How's things with you, are you keeping your head above water?

[sentience]

One of the things I needed to learn was when to speak and when to keep my mouth shut. Since I was a shy kid and finally came out of it, it was a challenge learning that one. By going through awful things myself, I learned more about compassion. I learned to persevere in my goals, even when they weren't coming to fruition. I learned to value the individuality of others. There's a whole bunch of stuff. I won't bore you with it, but it sometimes takes a long lifetime to realize it all.

[aceofcups]

Hi Hera... hope you get though those challenging aspects OK,,,, I have been very active myself on zoom theses days.. with both teaching a variety of classes on spiritual subjects for last 35 weeks for very compassionate and highly educated Therapeutic Touch nurses (I did one 6 week class on understanding the archetypes and symbols of the planets) and taking many classes and going to an assortment of meditation and healing sessions also. Understanding the astrological forces at play in the world last year and new ones of the present cycles has help me to navigate through the difficult world cycle, while also sharing and helping others where I could also.

I have been sharing recently the Michael Newton's book -- Journey of Souls and his other book Destiny of Soul's-- I remember years ago a person who use to come to chat room, when that existed, who was very much into those books.

so very nice to see you again.

peace
ace

[gruntal]

It was assumed my beliefs would fall with the simple challenge: if everything just reincarnates then how does that fit into population growth? The answer is a bit awkward since the idea of one life also assumes we can only incarnate in one body or experience at a time.

Even many of the spiritual are squeamish about fragmentation.

As if that wasn't enough the very idea of multiple lives just assumes they occur in some sequential order. You can not go back.

I have reason to believe we can and do return from the future to do a specific job if no one else is available. Our abilities will be blocked to the level we attained in the past. As always the proof is wanting and insecurity may cause a flight into fancy.

But that does beg the question: what exactly is time? Even hard core science admits the flow of time just flows ( to us ) forward but mathematically it can go either way . The best answer from the viewpoint of metaphysics is we exist simultaneously throughout all of existence but are usually only aware of only one point.

The point we use to think about all of this!

[sentience]

Feb 20, 2021 16:25:41 GMT gruntal said:

It was assumed my beliefs would fall with the simple challenge: if everything just reincarnates then how does that fit into population growth? The answer is a bit awkward since the idea of one life also assumes we can only incarnate in one body or experience at a time.

Even many of the spiritual are squeamish about fragmentation.

As if that wasn't enough the very idea of multiple lives just assumes they occur in some sequential order. You can not go back.

I have reason to believe we can and do return from the future to do a specific job if no one else is available. Our abilities will be blocked to the level we attained in the past. As always the proof is wanting and insecurity may cause a flight into fancy.

But that does beg the question: what exactly is time? Even hard core science admits the flow of time just flows ( to us ) forward but mathematically it can go either way . The best answer from the viewpoint of metaphysics is we exist simultaneously throughout all of existence but are usually only aware of only one point.

The point we use to think about all of this!

I also have had the question about how reincarnation fits with population growth.  Of course, humans or prehumans have been around a long time.  So there must be a big pool to draw from.  I guess when no one is available to reincarnate, new souls would come into existence.  As for going back in time and going into the future or living several lives at once...I agree with science.  But each of us makes sense of it for ourselves.  It makes for some good mental gymnastics.

[gruntal]

It never ceases to amaze me the things I never could do despite hard work and abilities. Other things I wrote off as most unlikely are beginning visit me with a vengeance. People assume I knew how but it was incomprehensible. Sometimes I didn't even think and it came out naturally.

I don't really know what is inside me or where it came from ....

Or what I attract and repel ...

[sentience]

Feb 20, 2021 19:22:25 GMT gruntal said:

It never ceases to amaze me the things I never could do despite hard work and abilities. Other things I wrote off as most unlikely are beginning visit me with a vengeance. People assume I knew how but it was incomprehensible. Sometimes I didn't even think and it came out naturally.

I don't really know what is inside me or where it came from ....

Or what I attract and repel ...

Are you willing to explain what and how?  Sometimes we do a good job,  Others are involved for the needed success, and they fall through.  Sometimes the timing is off.  There are so many possible variables.  I paint.  I always knew I wanted to, but didn't have any lessons until I found instructions on tv when I was 51.  With a lot of practice I developed my skills and got fairly good at it.  If reincarnation is true, I may have been a painter once upon a time.  I became a writer at 31.  I was driven to write my story and developed my skills.  What I am not is a person with any natural ability to market things.  My maternal grandfather could sell hay to a dead horse and be successful.  I certainly didn't inherit that.  For me the part that works requires drive.  The part that doesn't...is not part of who I am, I guess.

[gruntal]

My ability to read remarkably well came to me at an early age; by High School I was an excellent writer.But I thought being an author was a waste of time and for years didn't want any part of that. I was discouraged to do mechanical "hands on stuff" and didn't conceive I could get hired as a mechanic. I never was but I amazed some people with what I could fix on my own. I enjoyed working on my 1962 Willys. In my old age I studied Metaphysics but most of my gurus considered me a failure at that. I surprised them with my card readings! I had little interest in love or humanity until very late in life and little or no experience in that also. I have been told last year I was not the same person and am beginning to blossom. Very strange.

This is not at all the way I planned it ...

[sentience]

Feb 20, 2021 23:31:31 GMT gruntal said:

My ability to read remarkably well came to me at an early age; by High School I was an excellent writer.But I thought being an author was a waste of time and for years didn't want any part of that. I was discouraged to do mechanical "hands on stuff" and didn't conceive I could get hired as a mechanic. I never was but I amazed some people with what I could fix on my own. I enjoyed working on my 1962 Willys. In my old age I studied Metaphysics but most of my gurus considered me a failure at that. I surprised them with my card readings! I had little interest in love or humanity until very late in life and little or no experience in that also. I have been told last year I was not the same person and am beginning to blossom. Very strange.

This is not at all the way I planned it ...

Did you want to be a mechanic?  If so, then it's a shame others discouraged you from doing it.  It sounds to me like you are growing into the person you want to be.  I am not the person I once was either.  Growth is a beautiful thing.

[asya]

2 years ago,i made myself a present-i went to see a person,who could see previous lives.And i did this,because i thought that this could help me with this life,because i am not feeling like this is my world,or my place,my country...And this really could help to find some answers.It could change your life.

[gruntal]

I pretty much figured out I was tired and fed up with planet Earth and didn't want to come back here. I was given some glimpse by the Ascended Ones that corroborated this but They often are very cryptic and for good reason. Telling you your fortune ( in a factual way ) is a contradiction in terms and They will NEVER do that. You must live something and experience it to feel the emotions - including the thrill ( or disappointment ) of discovery. The experience is the reason we go on living and reincarnating. Oddly in my old age I am now finding some human relationships I love and will miss if I leave. But I am sort of packing my bags anyway because I decided to do that.