Phantom limb: body in the mind?

[donq]

                                                 

A phantom limb is the sensation that an amputated or missing limb is still attached. Approximately 60 to 80% of individuals with an amputation experience phantom sensations in their amputated limb, and the majority of the sensations are painful. Phantom sensations may also occur after the removal of body parts other than the limbs, e.g. after amputation of the breast, extraction of a tooth (phantom tooth pain) or removal of an eye (phantom eye syndrome).
-from Wikipedia

Phantom limb pain always wonder me. As for stump pain, I get it, more or less. Here's what stump pain is:
Stump pain is pain arising from the residual part of the body as opposed to phantom pain, which is felt in the missing part of the body. It is commonly a sharp, sticking, or pressure feeling that, although diffuse, is localized to the end of the stump.
How is it possible to feel the pain in the part of the body that has lost and isn't there?

"Some could feel all of missing leg quite well but mostly a warm squeezing feeling over some particular areas. Or when standing in cold water with fishing boot has imaginary leak of boot with imaginary water dribbing down along calf."
-from Phantom pain by Richard A. Sherman

Wait! As this is a spiritual forum, I know what you are thinking. :-)
But my question is, is there a body in the mind? And this brings back to the even older question, is the mind a non-physical substance? And the mind and brain are distinct entities?
There's a warning about "mindless brain and brainless mind". Some think that the mind is a non-physical substance, while the others, mind is noting without its brain. In other words mind cannot think without its brain.

What do you think about this?
 
 

[higherlevelone]

What i think about this is that it is a fascinating topic to talk about and that to make it short... The brain and mind are separate.

We use language; words to communicate but a word can only discribe so much, and is a 1 dimentional movment where as a picture expands the discription into a multi dimentional movement, and i could progress further by using video... Or even hologram.

With that said what am i saying when i use the word mind to discribe my mind. So to me my mind is separate from my brain and one proven evedince is free will. The brain is like a computer... Someone has to turn it on.

[donq]

Hi Higherlevelone,

Thanks for your input.

Before talking further, I have to confess that, even after 35 years of trying to find the answer (and once I even used to be in the coma for months when I was in the hospital), I still have no answer.

So, what I'm going to talk about is only my questions:  

1. Yous said, "So to me my mind is separate from my brain and one proven evidence is free will. The brain is like a computer...Someone has to turn it on."

I do agree with you.
Still, if the brain is a computer hardware and the mind is, says, an operating system or software, then how could the mind function without its hardware?
While Neuroscience (or neurobiology) is the scientific study focusing on human nervous system (brain etc.) we still have another psychology that studies the human unconscious mind. Is there the mind beyond human nervous system, beyond the brain? But then, why a person in coma, in the state of profound unconsciousness (caused by disease, injury, or poison), could NOT be responsive and cannot be roused?

2. Is there the astral body in another dimension?
As English is not my first language and I'm too lazy to type, here what the astral body is (from wiki):

The astral body is a subtle body posited by many philosophers, intermediate between the intelligent soul and the mental body, composed of a subtle material. The concept ultimately derives from the philosophy of Plato: it is related to an astral plane, which consists of the planetary heavens of astrology...The idea is rooted in common worldwide religious accounts of the afterlife in which the soul's journey or "ascent" is described in such terms as "an ecstatic.., mystical or out-of body experience, wherein the spiritual traveller leaves the physical body and travels in his/her subtle body (or dreambody or astral body) into ‘higher’ realms.

If the astral body is real, then, phantom limb pain is reasonable. But this brings us to another questions: why 20-40% of individuals with an amputation do NOT experience phantom sensations in their amputated limb (while 60 to 80% of them do)?
And are their astral bodies feel or don't feel about those amputated or missing limbs?

Again, I don't know the answer yet, and maybe never will.. But as I come from the Buddhist tradition, I kind of like the following (warning) story:

There’s a well-known story about a sitar player (in some versions, it’s a lute player) who was discouraged with his meditation practice and went to the Buddha to ask for instruction.
“What happens when you tune your instrument too tightly?” the Buddha asked.
“The strings break,” the musician replied.
“And what happens when you string it too loosely?”
“When it’s too loose, no sound comes out,” the musician answered. “The string that produces a tuneful sound is not too tight and not too loose.”
“That,” said the Buddha, “is how to practice: not too tight and not too loose.”
 
Yes, that is the Buddhist Middle Way. It's the path between two extremes as "every virtue is a mean between two extremes, each of which is a vice.”

[aceofcups]

Hi Monty,

My esoteric understanding of phantom pain from studying occult anatomy... is understanding the etheric body or the chi energy body.... (what acupuncturist and acupressure works in and with) .. The etheric body is actually a higher vibrational part of the physical body esoterically understood - It is where the chakras ( or one level of the chakras reside)... The etheric is different then the astral or auric field.. but are co-mingled in energy. The etheric holds the blueprint of the physical. Actually the physical body is created out of the etheric. We grow from within to the without esoterically.

So even when there is a loss of a physical limb... the etheric energy field of that limb is still there and that is what the person is feeling... an example of feeling the etheric is when your feet falls asleep and you feel the sensation of tingling.. what one is feeling is the etheric.

The etheric itself has various levels esoterically.

Just my understanding and working with energy healing.

peace
aceofcups

[donq]

Hi Ace,

Very clear. Thank so much.

P.S. I was thinking about this song. Somehow it shows that there' s something beyond our knowledge. Like Hamlet said to Horatio, "There are more things in heaven and earth, (in this case, DonQ ) Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Indeed!

When the dog bites, when the bee stings,
when I'm feeling sad,
I simply remember my favorite things,
and then I don't feel so bad.
-Julie Andrews (Sound Of Music )