Spiritual Community (completed)

[multidimensional]

This post has a specific purpose. If you have been a member for many years on this website i hope you will understand what i am trying to convey.

What efforts are being made to develop this website for the sake of developing spiritual community? What efforts are being made to keep the spiritual community alive? I have been in other so called spiritual chat rooms and forums. What i see there, is people having empty talk (90% nonsense) and 10 or 5% talk about spiritual development of some sort. What a waste in such "spiritual" chat rooms! one may wonder why they don't call it general chat room instead... 

At least this website doesn't have problems to such extent. But why do you think spiritual members leave? Why are they not staying? why is the community not growing and prospering the way it could? 

I remember times when you didn't want to leave spiritual chat room because you could really feel the presence of its members and how they were feeling at the time their words were written/spoken and how they were aspiring for enlightenment. It felt like we were all walking together.  

 (I'm still working on this post, not sure if this correctly/or in a good way portrays what i wish to convey.) 

[donq]

Hi Mutltidimentional,

You said in the last sentence:

" I'm still working on this post, not sure if this correctly/or in a good way portrays what i wish to convey."

I think I know what you were trying to say. And that might be what is happening to any (serious) forum nowadays.
The following might be a bit personal and I'm sorry about that in advance. I just want to show my point.

I've been here for some years and already wrote 908 posts. As for my dear friend and our moderator, Sparklekaz, she already wrote 3,513 posts (during her almost 10 years here)! What does this mean? It means, at least, we already tried, didn't we?

There was a time when I did believe that if I wrote something good (I also have earned my living as a professional author for 30 years), even I might not get fair payment in return (happened a lot. ) I still got some readers who wanted to read some good stuff. And that was better and any money, right? But I haven't believed something like that any more. Experiences (lots of painful ones) taught me that the world has changed, really changed!

English is not my first language but I still started posting on some spiritual forums about a decade ago (one of them was "the world of Ken Wilber"). That time a spiritual forum like that seemed so energetic and inspired. But that time has already gone for many years. I also have been a book editor for 30 years. That has also happened in my line of work. I mean my readers have really changed! Why bother to come to any serious forums and read some serious stuffs when you could go to any entertaining ones: personal social media, movies, youtube, songs, porns, games online etc. etc.

Let me sum it up this way with some great quotes:

"Language must resound with all the harmonies of music. The writer must always, at all times, find the tremulous word which captures the thing and is able to draw a sob from my soul by its very rightness. A word can be transformed into a color, light, a smell. It is the writer´s task to use it in such a way that it serves, never fails, can never be ignored. The writer must be able to revel and roll in the abundance of words. He must know not only the direct but also the secret power of a word. There are overtones and undertones to a word, and lateral echoes, too."
-Knut Hamsun

So exciting, right? There was a time when I tried so hard like that, to improve my writing, for the benefit of my readers. But that time was gone, really gone. The world has changed. Or maybe I've changed? Or maybe both?

“I think we ought to read only the kind of books that wound or stab us. If the book we're reading doesn't wake us up with a blow to the head, what are we reading for? So that it will make us happy, as you write? Good Lord, we would be happy precisely if we had no books, and the kind of books that make us happy are the kind we could write ourselves if we had to. But we need books that affect us like a disaster, that grieve us deeply, like the death of someone we loved more than ourselves, like being banished into forests far from everyone, like a suicide. A book must be the axe for the frozen sea within us. That is my belief.”

-Franz Kafka

Though that was very true but the point is it might not be true nowadays. How many people who read Kafka's? And how many (adult) people who read that very famous novel for the children, Harry Potter? :-) I didn't mean Harry Potter is not good. I only meant why less and less people read Kafka?
There was a time when I intended to write only serious stuff, a good one, with some hope that someone might like it or benefit from it, more or less. Anyway, after I passed my 50, my ambition seemed to be gone. If I wrote something, anything, I hope that if only just one reader getting it, I would be more than happy.

Life leads the thoughtful person on a course of many windings.
First the course is checked, now it runs straight again.
Here winged thoughts may pour freely forth in words,
There the heavy burden of knowledge must be shut away in silence.
But when two people are at one in their inmost hearts,
They shatter even the strength of iron or of bronze.
And when two people understand each other in their inmost hearts,
Their words are sweet and strong, like the fragrance of orchids.

-Confucius

Ah! I've just recalled another one great quote. Not really an exact quote, it was only fragment of my long time memory.
"Do (write) your best and somebody would like it."
Don't recall who said it. Emily Dickinson? I think.  

The author has something to say which he perceives to be true and useful, or helpfully beautiful. So far as he knows, no one has yet said it; so far as he knows, no one else can say it. He is bound to say it, clearly and melodiously if he may; clearly, at all events. In the sum of his life he finds this to be the thing, or group of things, manifest to him;—this, the piece of true knowledge, or sight, which his share of sunshine and earth has permitted him to seize. He would fain set it down forever; engrave it on rock, if he could; saying, “This is the best of me; for the rest, I ate, and drank, and slept, loved, and hated, like another; my life was as the vapor and is not; but this I saw and knew: this, if anything of mine, is worth your memory.” That is his “writing”; it is, in his small human way, and with whatever degree of true inspiration is in him, his inscription, or scripture. That is a “Book.”

-John Ruskin (from "Sesame and Lilies")


So does this forum. If I wrote something and posted it, it was just because of my love for this forum. After my 908 posts here and I still haven't gone away, it is just because of love. That's it. That's all.

P.S. I've wrote this post without stopping. Sorry for any errors and typos.      
 
       
 

[gruntal]

At some level there is a built in enigma of advancing only to find yourself so far beyond what the masses are capable of you are alienated. But at another level any number of things just do not work. And any number of pious well meanings words only add insult to injury. It doesn't work. This is where argument should go give way to education. Assuming there are indeed right and wrong answers - something that obviously borders on the arrogant.

I have only been doing this since 1985. I was told if I pushed back the calendar a thousand years it would still be the same. It was only about three years ago I got the radical idea of investigating if there were any local groups I could attend in person. Given such a short time span of activity I still must say I have found precious few persons of a supposed spiritual nature that were anything other then an embarrassment to the movement.

If nothing else in this life time I have learned what a mentor is even if I wasn't capable of being it or finding one.

I would like to think that is why I often dropped out. It wasn't because I "was not ready"; my ego was not under attack; I didn't selfishly run after I got what I wanted ; I simply did not think it was working.

To those that find this very discouraging all I can say is victory is still inevitable. Because no matter how many leave or drop out they will still go on existing. And seeking. Because that is the only thing that does work.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

Thank you so much for sharing that. You have conveyed very eloquently, that the life force of any forum is very much dependent on those who contribute to it. As well as describing the mercurial nature of sharing 'anything' in this way. I like you love to write. I too used to believe that if I wrote something well, in an interesting way, that invited the reader in, to interact with me and others on the subject I was writing about - it would happen. It does not. But, I write for the pleasure of writing, and if it touches someone else, in any way then I am happy. It can be disheartening for a writer to share and not receive any response, I know that. But ultimately we do it for the love of sharing words and idea's. Sending it into the ethos, hoping that it will, somewhere, with someone, resonate.

You said "That time a spiritual forum like that seemed so energetic and inspired. But that time has already gone for many years." I think that is true. But I also believe life is cyclical, and that, that time may come again. At least I dearly hope so. Having said that, quantity does not always mean quality and as long as I have at least one other likeminded friend to share with, then I am happy. We are a serious spiritual chat/forum. I believe there are more than enough light hearted, chit chat and 'can I have a reading' sites out there. Trying to make this site more 'main stream' will not necessarily improve the quality of what we have here, only increase the numbers. And attract more of the stranger, wackier elements we often have to deal with already. All I am saying is that more doesn't always mean better. Just something for Multi to consider

One of my favourite quotes is by Frederich Nietzsche and goes something like this "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." I truly believe that there is a time and a place for sharing, and those who are drawn will come. And those who seek will find. And this forum and chat will be here for those who need it. And that it is important to remember that what we know and see is but what appears on the surface. I never make assumptions about anything.

Love and light
Kaz






I loved the quotes

[multidimensional]

I have made some alterations to the post now. When writing this, i remember that i wanted old members to feel a bit nostalgic or thinking about the good times. Hoping that you would pay attention to how things are and how we can go back to how it was or at least improve things a little bit. This is what i really wanted to get across to you. But perhaps you see things differently? I have noticed certain patterns however...  that talking about spiritual experiences helps many people connect much easier. But also how we can help each other right now to develop ourselves spiritually. Im not completely sure where I'm going with this. Right now Im just writing and see things from two opposite perspectives while doing so which is a bit tricky. 

[sparklekaz]

Hi Multi,

I did take your post in the spirit it was mean't. I too miss those busier days, and as I said in my reply to Monty, I do hope they come again. There is very much a rhythm about these things, and I do see interest moving in cycles. For my part, if I have something of interest to share, I do. I suppose, because I have written so many posts over the years on many spiritual topics, I worry about duplicating. As people can look back over old posts and read them. On the other hand, being realistic I know many wont bother to do that; so maybe I can do some of them again with fresh eyes. As I too have changed since I wrote them. It can be interesting in that sense to look back and see how if my perspective has also. Perhaps bring something new and fresh to it.

As for yourself, please keep posting. Sharing your thoughts and feelings about different things. After all this is what the forum is for. When I first came here, many of my early posts were kind of journal like. In the sense that I kind of used the forum as a journal. I loved the fact I had somewhere to articulate what was happening to me on my own spiritual journey. Hoping to interact with others who could relate. And to learn from others too. So its all good. Don't be sad, it is what it is. Worry less about what others do, and focus on what you want to do yourself. Sometimes that can be a distraction. This is your time. Others will come when its their time.

Love and light
Kaz

[multidimensional]

Thank you! 

[donq]

Hi Karen,

You said:

"But I also believe life is cyclical, and that, that time may come again. At least I dearly hope so...I truly believe that there is a time and a place for sharing, and those who are drawn will come. And those who seek will find."

Thanks for your balance check, again. Sometimes I'm a bit pessimist. What you said reminds me of something in this quote:

“All theory is gray, my friend. But forever green is the tree of life.”

-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust: First Part

Yes, the tree of life is forever green. And as you said "quantity does not always mean quality", it made me think of another quote:

“There are but two roads that lead to an important goal and to the doing of great things: strength and perseverance. Strength is the lot of but a few priveledged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.”

-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust: First Part

Yes, perseverance maybe employed by the smallest of us, indeed!

I'd like to quote another poem (which I used to quote it before) here. Yes, duplicating! But you really reminds me of him:

"Ah, poet, the evening draws near; your hair is turning grey.
"Do you in your lonely musing hear the message of the hereafter?"

"It is evening," the poet said, "and I am listening
because some one may call from the village, late though it be.
"I watch if young straying hearts meet together,
and two pairs of eager eyes beg for music to break their silence and speak for them.
"Who is there to weave their passionate songs,
if I sit on the shore of life and contemplate death and the beyond?

"The early evening star disappears.
"The glow of a funeral pyre slowly dies by the silent river.
"Jackals cry in chorus from the courtyard of the deserted house
in the light of the worn-out moon.
"If some wanderer, leaving home, come here to watch the night and
with bowed head listen to the murmur of the darkness,
who is there to whisper the secrets of life into his ears if I,
shutting my doors, should try to free myself from mortal bonds?
-from The Gardener by Rabindranath Tagore  

[donq]

Hi Multidimentional,

As Sparklekaz said, please continue to post. You really are helping this forum.
I know and understand what you are trying to do. If just that sometimes my words always seemed to be harsh. Sorry about that.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

I loved the Tagore poem. I have not read it before. It is so apt. Gave me shivers to read. Just beautiful. Thank you for sharing it.

Love and light
Kaz

[multidimensional]

Please see thread "more than words"... 

[sparklekaz]

Hi Multi,

I can't see your post on there?

Love and light
Kaz

[multidimensional]

Sparkle, i just encourage (people who come across this thread) to check out that thread because i think it expressed well something i wanted to highlight (in this thread, but wasn't sure how), or similar at least. Therefore want to tie two threads together somehow to indirectly illustrate an abstract idea. Personally didn't feel i had anything particular to contribute to the thread so just used like button. When I have something I want to share I will do so. Perhaps I'm to abstract here...? 

[sparklekaz]

Hi Multi.. your fine.. I misunderstood, but understand now

Love and light
Kaz