What does happiness mean to you?

[donq]

Hi my friends,


Let me begin with this quote:

In dark and quiet night, waking up after drinking whole-heartily, and then suddenly realizing the person lying next to you is someone you didn’t even know the name of.
Have you experienced this before?
Between the noise of cheers and acclaims, after a person returns home to the pitch-black window only wishing for daylight to come out quicker.
Have you felt this way before?
Tonight you spent in drinking and pleasure, party blissfully, but you do not even know when you will be at tomorrow.
Even not knowing where you will be drunk tonight.
Willow tree dances in the wind, breezes at dawn and the fading moon. Although these moods are beautiful, but in its beauty how desolate it is and how it makes a man heart-broken.
This type of happiness, would you want to enjoy it?
Hypothetically, if you are able to have whatever you wanted, then what in life is worth chasing after?
This type of meaningless, who would know?

-from Forewords of Sword of the Third Young Master (Chinese martial arts novel), by Gu Long

.........................................

I remember a time when I still enjoyed reading a book. I mean literally enjoyed. There was nothing in the world that could make me happy more than reading. But that time was gone. I have felt that reading was a waste of time for years. I didn't mean I didn't get anything from reading. Though once in a while it also still made me happy but I didn't enjoy it like I used to be anymore.

What was wrong with me? Where/why did I lose my happiness?

It is said, "Life, after all, is also lovely. When a man is alive, he ought to understand how to enjoy life and how to pursue happiness."
Why didn't I believe in that anymore?

And I"m not a pessimist but rather a realist. Yes, maybe life is also lovely but to enjoy life is to know how to pursue happiness?
I don't think so. I found that the more I try to pursue it, the more I don't get it.
Besides, if I am able to have whatever happiness I pursued, then what in life is worth chasing after?
But was that just my "sour grapes" strategy in Aesop's Fables (The Fox and the Grapes)? When I could not get that happiness (sweet grapes) so I concluded that all grapes in the world are sour. 

Anyway, at one point, I stopped trying.

After years passed by, I felt that getting happiness of not, it doesn't matter any more. I felt that whenever I got my happiness, the unhappiness was waiting for me in the next corner. I only meant in the real sense. For example, if I got something beautiful, I would felt so jealous. I didn't want to share my happiness with anyone. It was mine and mine only. And that feeling was killing me. Not to mention the truth that I could never hold that happiness to me forever. One day everything will disappear. Everything is impermanent. It has to change. It will be gone. Everything/everyone inevitably literally dies. How can I handle that day, when I have to lose all of my happiness?
I knew this. So I've been prepared. But from time to time, I still miss my old happiness.
It would be great if I could find my old happiness, such as from reading a book, again.

What does happiness mean to you?      






 


 

[mojomojo]

Hello Donq,
As young children, we would jump out of bed upon wakening, full of enthusiasm, bursting at the seems with happiness, in awe and wonder at what the day would bring.
With the passing of years most find that which they enjoy, a hobby, a passion and they find their happiness in this.
The burdens of life are felt as we move into adulthood, and seem to drain our happiness, that which we have set time aside for, no longer interests us, repetition and a lack of free time sends us on a spiralling descent.
Then spirituality gives us hope, we have found a way out of the mundane, we feel replenished, but if we are truthful, in time, does this also not loose its shine, whether this is illusion or not, we are still in it, as we get older is happiness something we lose.
I had to think long and hard, what makes me happy, if I was given a brand new car tomorrow, would I be happy, in all honesty, it would do nothing for me.
That sounded a little bit depressing as it rang around my head, and I worried, does anything make you happy, and I thought, and a smile came over my face, I thought of the time I watched a singer on a competition on t.v. and how their voice touched my soul, and how moved I was, that they had found their life's calling as it unfolded on stage, I thought of an oil painting, of the underlying soul that oozed out through the magnificent painting, and I felt delight for the artist, and happiness that he had found his calling.

So, I came to my definition of happiness for now,
Happiness is the creative expression of God, through people, who in their work, have found their own happiness.

I thank you, Donq, for asking that question.

[donq]

Hi Amy,

It's said, "the heart is a lonely hunter", is it not?  That's why all it needs is love. :-)

This reminds me of that boy of Nat King Cole (though I prefer Lizz Wright's, Cher's and Ella Fitzgerald's versions)

There was a boy
A very strange enchanted boy
They say he wandered very far, very far
Over land and sea
A little shy and sad of eye
But very wise was he
And then one day
A magic day he passed my way
And while we spoke of many things
Fools and kings
This he said to me
The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is just to love and be loved in return

I think it's not hard to learn to love. But to learn to be loved is always the hardest thing we ever learn. Sure, having someone loving us could bring us happiness. But what if there's no one there to love us any more?
There was an old novel in my country, a main character said before she died,

"Were I to die without anyone loving me, at least I am still glad that I had someone to love."

Though it was a sad story that happens everywhere with so many people, but in the spiritual context it also had a good meaning. If only we still can love without wanting love in return. (The nature boy would disagree with this). That would be a true great happiness.   

Hi Robert,
You post was like a prose poem. It gave me a good feeling. Somehow it reminds me of this poem (sorry I already posted it for a few times but I do like it :-) :  

I WOKE and found his letter with the morning.
I do not know what it says, for I cannot read.
I shall leave the wise man alone with his books, I shall not trouble him, for who knows if he can read what the letter says.
Let me hold it to my forehead and press it to my heart.
When the night grows still and stars come out one by one I will spread it on my lap and stay silent.
The rustling leaves will read it aloud to me, the rushing stream will chant it, and the seven wise stars will sing it to me from the sky.
I cannot find what I seek, I cannot understand what I would learn; but this unread letter has lightened my burdens and turned my thoughts into songs.    
-from Fruit-Gathering by Rabindranath Tagore

Thanks Amy and Robert. Both of your posts really has lightened my burdens and turned my thoughts into this post. I dare say that it's a happiness! 

[gruntal]

Happiness is success. I can not imagine failure leading to anything but despair if not complete apathy. But that we would redefine success is inevitable. That itself might the ultimate vindication of it. We do not necessarily grow satiated as much as we develop greater awareness of what success is. The biggest mistake is in thinking success is an addiction that betrays us. Just because you can never reach complete success. Success is only limited by our awareness even as that awareness is surely unlimited.

Like Alexander the Great there is a limit to how much world we can conquer. Then he failed and had nothing left to do. But there are virtually unlimited worlds in existence! When you realize that then success can never end ...

[donq]

Hi George,
I'm glad to see you. :-)

You said,

"Happiness is success".

Well put! And it's very true. I'm agree that success is not like anything. If I ate this delicious food I'm very fond of everyday, at some point, it will not satisfy me any more and I'll lose my happiness. As for success, we will never grow satiated about that.
Happiness seems to love a winner; despair a loser. Somehow we cannot get our happiness from our failures. But why? Can we learn to be happy with our failures?  If so, that will limit our awareness until we never get success (happiness) all our lives? (if we think that we cannot success, then we never will, because we limit our awareness and possibilities about it).
I cannot help but think that this may be the (border) line between worldly and spiritual success? Because worldly success can be never end, and this kind of awareness (affirmation/positive thinking etc.) can help us get (worldly) success again and again. But what about spiritual success?  Maybe spiritual success means we could be happy even with every failures we got, and still be happy even we will never get any success again all our lives?
I know that might sound so depressed, but what if we really could do that?

Hi Amy,

Gerge think happiness is about success. You, about love?  
Agree to both of you. hahaha

Anyway, I think this is very complicated stuff to talk about. First, we have to know which context we are mentioning to. Let me put it in this way: a bottle full of water versus a emptied bottle, both of them look the same, and both of them make no sound etc.

In one bottle (one context), it's true that people don't love other people. That's why we have "Love your neighbor as yourself" in Bible. (Please don't forget that I"m talking about this bottle, this context only) People only love themselves. It's a natural state of being for survival. Anyone (man and animal) loves one's self and tries best to safe oneself first. There's no room for other. What's why one has to learn to love one's neighbor the same as oneself.  
As for another bottle (context), a person, let's call him DonQ . He can love other people with no problem. But when it comes to being loved, he wonder why or how can others love him. He found that no one love him no matter how much he loved other people. (Hey, this is just a fictional example, okay?)

And we might need another bottle here. It's about what you said:

"people know they can love other people alright, but when it comes to being loved they may wonder why or how can others love them and what is so lovable about them and what is it that the other person sees in them, for they cannot see it in themselves and think they're nothing special."

In this particular context, this DonQ had problem in his childhood. His mother hates him. And he thinks on one loves him and never will (which is not true). His doubt becomes his depression and his worldview. He loses his self-confidence more and more, to the point that he even cannot love himself. He cannot see any lovable in himself at all (which is not true).

Urh...Where were I?

Oh!, okay, I was going to say that in this particular bottle, this context, it's true when you said, "so nobody loving us is just an illusion..."

[donq]

Oh! I forgot to tell the difference between the second DonQ and the third DonQ. hahaha

The third DonQ has an illusion that no one loves him and he cannot be loved. He cannot even love himself and has no confidence in himself.
The second DonQ doesn't have an illusion that everyone loves him as he is so adorable/lovable. He knows the truth. It's just a fact. But this fact doesn't affect his confidence to love others and himself.

People tend to think that they are lovely and everyone love them. Somehow it's good for them, like placebo effects, even it's not true. This is call "ignorance" in Buddhism. They just don't know the truth. If (another) DonQ has thousands of friends on his facebook,  this means he's so adorable? And those friends really love them? I don't think so. They can even be called the real friends. This is the truth.  
This story's just popped up in my mind:

A middle-aged man, recently separated from his wife and living alone, grooms himself before he commutes to work. He trims his moustache, dries his hair, and unbuttons the first few buttons of his shirt so that the gold chains around his neck are visible. He views himself in the mirror and likes what he see. He thinks his problem today is that he will be mistaken for a football player and will have to politely decline the requests for autographs.
He gets on the bus; it is quite crowded, and he has to stand. He finds himself in front of a strikingly attractive young college woman with soft skin and flowing blond hair. She is so alluring that he cannot take his eyes off of her. The entire trip he stares at her. Then she looks up and sees him staring at her. Their eyes lock. He doesn't know where it's going to lead, but he would like to find out. He gives the girls his warmest, most inviting smile. The girl nods, smiles back at him, stand up, and offers him her seat.

In this case, the truth is he's not lovable as he thought he is (his illusion).

John Fowles wrote:

When one grows too old to believe in one's uniqueness, one falls in love with one's complexity.

Maybe it doesn't need to be complicated. Maybe I'm too old to this stuff. Maybe getting happiness is not that complicated but so simple like the story below?  

An old man, listening to the pitter-patter of rain, thought of both the melancholy and joyous sounds of the storm. He thought of the inconvenience of traveling in inclement weather and the life-giving moisture the rain brings. He remembered that, to some, this is s source of annoyance; but it is essential for all growing things. As his mind flowed to these confluences of sound and thought, he recalled something his father had told him as a child, "There is sadness in beauty," the father said, "When you understand that, you will no longer be a boy."

Does happiness is just to see beauty in every sadness?   

[donq]

Hi again, George,

I've just recalled this story, about success. :-)

A college student in a premedical program did his best to get his grades and was admitted into the medical school of his choice. As a reward, his parents sent him to Japan for the summer. There he met a guru who told him that his sense of values was warped.
The guru said, "Your greatest pleasure in life has been to overshadow your classmates. Getting an A so that your classmate gets a B in order for you to get a prized place in medical school is what gives you satisfaction. You will choose a mate and get married not because of love but because you will want to win the woman that everyone else wants. Your whole life is defined by competition, rivalry, and getting ahead. Come stay here in the ashram. You will see that it is different here: we all share; no one competes; everyone is happy."
Convinced of the need to change the way he lived his life, the young man called his parents and informed them that he was dropping out, despite their objections.
Six months later, the student wrote to his parents to tell them how ecstatic he was. He wrote:
"I know you weren't delighted about the decision I made, but I must tell you how happy I am. For the first time in my life, I am at peace. There is no strife, no dissension among the members of the ashram and no dissonance in my soul. We all share equally. We all love each other. They way of life is so much in harmony with the inner essence of my soul that in only six months I have become #2 disciple in the ashram and I think I can be #1 by June."



Have a nice day, everyone!

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

I know what makes people happy can vary from person to person. The over-riding thing seems to be love. Loving and being loved in return. But, I'd have to say, if loving was the only criteria for being happy, then there would be an awful lot of unhappy people out there. Because as we all know. Just being in love or loving someone, doesn't always guarantee happiness, or, that who we love, will love us back. And as Monty has also pointed out, being successful doesn't always guarantee happiness either. As people who depend on success to make them happy, are usually very driven and are always looking for the next project to succeed at. Constantly testing themselves and rarely satisfied for long.

Human beings I've found, and I include myself in this seem to have a low boredom threshhold. And even copious amounts of love and success, will eventually pall. I think this is because we very quickly take things for granted and fail to appreciate what we have, until we don't have it anymore. I think many of us who are working on their self-growth, and using their life experiences to gain emotional intelligence and awareness; have come to realize all this to be so. And have come to understand that all the things that are based on our 'outer circumstances' are doomed to fail. It will not provide that long lasting happiness and inner peace, contentment, we all crave. And we do crave it. Because intinctively in our deepest core we know that it is possible.

It's said that attachment to things is the root of all suffering. So attachment to loved ones, friends and family. Our possessions and status in the world, will only give us the illusion of happiness, because any of these things can be taken away from us. Now, I understand this, but understanding it and achieving a state of non attachment, particularly to loved ones, is very hard for me. Because I am a very much an emotionally led person. Though as I've got older I think it's calmed down. Some of the biggest life lessons I've learned have been through experiencing the consequences of this. I don't think we make the most sensible of decisions when we are emotionally led. Discerning which is a connection from my intuitive or gut instincts as oppossed to a emotionally coloured responses has been the most difficult. And I still get it wrong sometimes. But that in itself can be liberating. Simply realizing it, can help you to take steps to prevent it. I'm not yet Mistress of my mind and emotions, but I'm getting there slowly. And this can bring a kind of happiness. Because sometimes its like living with two people inside you. One who is calm, thought out and coming from a place of self love and unconditional acceptance of others, and the other, someone who over-reacts and is over sensitive. Thank goodness the former is in the 'driving seat' more often than the latter. lol

So having rambled away on this for a while, and talked about what I think is the cause of what makes people unhappy, rather than happy. Or why happiness is so fragile and intransient. What makes me happy? Loving and showing my love to my partner. My joy in my children and grandchild, who are the best of me. Helping others where I can, and being useful. So again, it comes down to love doesn't it. For the love is the fire that ultimately propels us all forward. Whether its loving others - nurturing, caring for, helping them, being of service. Showing others their own light and self worth and just as importantly, though many neglect this aspect; loving, caring, nurturing and respecting ourselves. The latter is 'work in progress'.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Dear Karen,

In my life, I found only a few decent women who literally devoted themselves wholeheartedly to help others. And you are one of them. :-)
It's an honor to know you.


Hi Amy,

Hahaha, my real handle is DonQuickSod (wrong pronunciation of Don Quijote that appeared in some English dictionaries in the past). But one of my dear friends here suggested that it was not polite, somehow. So, I had to shorten it to be "DonQ" only. Even so, sometimes, someone mistook it for "DonG" (g not q) which also had a bad meaning. hahaha

Anyway, you can call me my real name like my dear friends here. It's Monty.

And I'm old. Can you guess my age if I tell you that now my first ex is 67 years old?
   
Don Quijote (Spanish) or Don Quixote (English) was one of my favorite charcaters.
And I do like the lyrics by Joe Darion and the scene (Man of La Mancha) that Peter O'Toole sang this song to Sophia Loren:
 
To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go

To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star

This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far

To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause

And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest

And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star

P.S. Above was my tricky question. My ex is 12 years older than me. But, I'm still old anyway. hahaha

[sparklekaz]

I couldn't resist sharing this. It says it all really doesn't it.

[donq]

Hi Karen,
Good one! You got me! hahaha

Hi Amy,
Yes, you were right. As I had been a serious Buddhist for a very long time. But I've been considered myself being a Taoist for years. hahaha
I do know that this song is rather be just an idealism, like Don Quijote himself who dared (or was mad enough) to fight with a windmill.
But this song always gives me some courage, even some hope.
 
To bear with unbearable sorrow
-As Karen just quoted Buddha above, if there's no "I", how could be sorrow there? And how could be unbearable? 

To run where the brave dare not go...
-I'll do the right thing even when no one dares to do. And yes, I always failed. 

To right the unrightable wrong
-This one is toughest. No need to say, I always failed. hahaha

To love pure and chaste from afar
-This is...urh...my privacy, is it not? 

To try when your arms are too weary...
-Not so hard to do as I still have legs to walk.

To fight for the right without question or pause
-Hmm...I'm not good at fighting, only good at surrender. 

To be willing to march into Hell for a heavenly cause
-Been there, done that. Didn't work. Hell has noting to do with heavenly cause, believe me!

And I know if I'll only be true to this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest
And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage

The last ones are the most favorite part for me. It's like some sayings in Buddhism. The real Buddhist has to ask himself, "Time is passing by every moment. What are you doing?". Did you already do what you have to do while living in this world? Did you do good enough? etc. So that one day, which will inevitably come, how you will left this world. Left it with so people still hated you so much. Or with people's love and praise for what you already did?   
Oops! sorry. Didn't mean to show my Buddhist side. hahaha

[donq]

                                                            
                                                              


It is a Buddhist tradition that after a monk's got alms (food), he has to give an alms giver this blessing chant. When I was a monk (yes, I myself also used to be a monk ), I had to memorize this Pali chanting or I might starve to death.

Just as the rivers full of water will fill the ocean
Even so does what is here given, benefit the dead
Whatever you wished or wanted may it quickly be
May all your wish be fullfilled
Just like the full moon on the fifteenth day
Or like the wish fulfilling gem
May all distress disappear
May all diseases be destroyed
May no dangers be for you
May you be happy, living a long life

Amen! (In Pali, not English. hahaha)

[donq]

Hi Amy,

You said,

"it's a nice chant, but how odd that it includes wish fulfillment - i thought all buddhists strive to lose all the wishing and wanting and all desires?"

See? Now you understand why I had to be a serious Buddhist monk? hahaha

I mean, seriously, yes, you asked the very right question that I used to ask before. That time I was meditating (mindfulness) in the school (temple) of hardcore monk. We were like Zen Buddhism (Zen is a kind of revolution Buddhism). It's a very long story to explain. But to make a long short, Zen and my temple believed only in the core, not the bark. But one day, a venerable monk warned me that "the core could not survive without its bark." For example even those beautiful Buddhist temples, images/statues of Buddha had nothing to do with the real teaching of Buddha, but they will help Buddhism to survive. While the real teaching of Buddha was lost bit by bit, but, at least, those barks still last very longer. :-)


You said, "also, what just came to my mind - if all buddhists REALLY could stop wishing for anything, wouldn't that also include the wish or desire to help others or be of service, or even to live for a purpose? because even a purpose is a desire of sorts, to do a certain thing...so no desire - no purpose.

-In Buddhism, there is something that is like wu-wei in Taoist. Wu-wei means "action by non-action" or doing by not doing" or "doing without wanting a result." The same as in (serious) Buddhism: when you practice doing good to the point that it becomes your verb/your habit, it will not longer be your action, which will not create any karma. Above all, you will not attach to your ego (I-mine). If you got the good result, you will not be overjoyed (which could make you feel sad later when it's gone). If you got the bad result, you still feel the same, not feel over sad or not sad at all.
Changtzu said, "When an archer is shooting for fun. He has all his skill. If he shoots for a brass buckle. He is already nervous. If he shoots for a prize of gold. He goes blind." :-)


You said, "can anybody become one, or only men? just wondered what if a woman wanted to live like that  (as a monk-ess), or is it strictly a male domini"

-Yes and no. There are some conditions to become a monk. For example, disabled and criminal etc. are prohibited to be a monk. And it needs a special rite with some senior monks doing that. In the old time, a woman could become a monk. But around, say, a thousand years after Buddha died, there was no senior female monks left to do that rite, so there was no female monk for a while. (Until someone tried to bring this rite back and success, with so many Buddhists still disagreed) There have been only (Buddhist) nun. To be a nun is a lot easy and no need any rite. The difference between a female monk and a nun is a female monk had to hold/practice 311 precepts: a nun only 10 precepts.  Note: A monk only practice 227 precepts. It was said that because a woman tends to attach to her body more than a man, hence more precepts.

You said,

"and i wonder what made you come back to the non-monk world...but you don't have to answer that, as i could ask you about 1001 more questions about why, what and how because i would find your experience there no doubt extremely interesting. :-)"

-Okay. Agree. hahaha

P.S. I'm going to drive to upcountry and might not be able to reach the internet for a while.
P.P.S About what you said, " no desire - no purpose" you might find this one (Buddhist chant) interesting. I used to post it once somewhere here. Let me post in again. What makes it interesting is it's English, not Pali/Sanskrit. It's one of famous sutras of Mahayana Buddhism. :-)



The Maha Prajna Paramita Hrdaya Sutra
 Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva
when practicing deeply the Prajna Paramita
perceives that all five skandhas are empty
and is saved from all suffering and distress.
Shariputra, form does not differ from emptiness,
emptiness does not differ from form.  
That which is form is emptiness, t
hat which is emptiness form.
The same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses, consciousness.  
Shariputra, all dharmas are marked with emptiness;
they do not appear or disappear, are not tainted or pure, do not increase or decrease.  
Therefore, in emptiness no form, no feelings, perceptions, impulses, consciousness.  
No eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind;
 no color, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no object of mind;
no realm of eyes and so forth until no realm of mind consciousness.  
No ignorance and also no extinction of it, and so forth until no old age and death and also no extinction of them.  
No suffering, no origination, no stopping, no path, no cognition, also no attainment with nothing to attain.  
The Bodhisattva depends on Prajna Paramita and the mind is no hindrance; without any hindrance no fears exist.
Far apart from every perverted view one dwells in Nirvana.
 In the three worlds all Buddhas depend on Prajna Paramita and attain Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi.
 Therefore know that Prajna Paramita is the great transcendent mantra, is the great bright mantra,  is the utmost mantra,  is the supreme mantra  which is able to relieve all suffering and is true, not false.  
So proclaim the Prajna Paramita mantra, proclaim the mantra which says:  gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha  gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha  gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha.  

 



    
   
 

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

As someone who used to do Archery for pleasure as well as competitively, I love this analogy by Changtzu, "When an archer is shooting for fun. He has all his skill. If he shoots for a brass buckle. He is already nervous. If he shoots for a prize of gold. He goes blind." This is absolutely true. And yes in life, it seems the more pressure we put upon ourselves, and the more we care about the outcome of something, the more likely we are to mess it up.

I often wonder why this is so. For surely you would think that the more important something is to us, the more we would want to do our best. It seems emotional attachment, clouds our judgement, impairs our reactions, as well as our vision.

Thank you for sharing

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi Amy,

You said, "i like the wu-wei idea, it‘s just unfortunately so not in alignment with the western ideology (like all of the eastern belief systems really) – i’m trying to imagine all unemployed people openly voicing this belief to their friends, family and perhaps the welfare system people...as of course e.g. the world of work is all about doing, striving, ambition and getting results."

-Yes, more than agree. It's not alignment with the eastern belief systems either. Real Buddhism is about practicing to become "no self". In fact, there's no "self" in the beginning. Because everything is emptiness. And yes, emptiness is also everything. This is not just a wordplay. It's just that there's no other way to "convey" this idea.
As I posted on another thread that there are "conventional truth" and "absolute truth". We live in the world of conventional truth, so it's necessary to talk only in its context. What is money? Yes, it's something we do need to survive. But in the absolute truth, it's just a printed paper that we give value to it. And this kind of paper always bring trouble to people. People even kill each other because of it. Imagine if we give value to a rock, people might kill each other because of the rock! This is conventional truth. Sure, if you tell everyone that "gold" is not a rock, everyone might think you are crazy. Less people can get that you are talking about the absolute truth.
Alfred Korzybski said, "The map is not the territory". We, as the truth searcher, should not mistake a menu for a real food, and eat it. hahaha


You said,  "ok the 311 precepts rule me out as a female monk....;-)"

-This might give you a hint why I don't need to be a monk any more. In the absolute truth, whether you were a monk or not, whether you practice thousand precepts or not, it has nothing to do with the real spiritual practice, here and now. Those precepts are just barks, clothes that just to cover your core. So the real you is more important.


You said,  "if there is no sad, no happy, no great, no better or worse, no nothing etc. – how can the mantra be‚ great‘, ‚utmost‘ and ‚supreme‘? if all things/non-things are equal? and how can it be ‚true‘, if there is no true or false, if things just ARE and only take on a certain quality according to the observer’s projections/mindset etc...?"

-There are two possibilities here: first you are mistaking conventional truth" for "absolute truth". Secondly, some words in (any) Sutra were added later by some buddhists, not the words of Buddha himself. We have to choose it wisely.


You said, "sorry i’m just saying (typing) out loud if something puzzles me, i hope you don’t see it as criticism or anything."

-Hmm...I still don't know why I don't feel that it's not a criticism. hahaha. Really, I don't feel that way. I always feel that criticism is to ask/criticize with the "wrong" question. You somehow asked the right questions. Or it could be said that, you asked what I love to answer. hahaha


"have a lovely time wherever you’re driving to!"

Thanks. And I have to go in the next hour, really. (It's 2 AM now, here). I've just come to have a quick before I go. It's a long drive (It's not my car, hahaha. I just love to drive). My dad's got sick and my older brother aand I re going to visit him. Starting by this time the traffic will be more than good. Bye.

P.S. Don't have time to reread. Sorry in advance for any errors/typos.
      
 

[donq]

Hi Amy,

This will be a bit serious issue, please be prepare.

After driving 650 km or 400 miles (going and coming back), I arrived home last night. My dad was okay, for now. Or at least, not worse than we expected. He also might feel better after seeing me. I hadn't seen him for years, partly because I had no car, partly because we didn't feel so close any more after the incident happened around 35 years ago, when I still wasn't on my spiritual journey. Once he and his new wife came to visit me at our house without any inviting. He and my mom got into (verbal) fighting. My mom got mad and grabbed a knife to hurt his new wife. We could snatch the knife back from her. But this was what happening next: My dad force slapped her face badly. And I, without knowing myself, pushed his chest to stop him and showed that if he made any further move, he might feel sorry. Lucky that he stopped. And that was the first time in my life that I was ready for a violence.

About 4 years ago, my (older) brother asked me to come to live with my cancer mom, to take care of her. He had two houses, one was this and another one was his home office. I said yes because I didn't need to pay for my rent any more. Besides, I had been a freelancer for a decade, I could do this without problem. I meant I still could do my job, more or less.
I have to drive my mom to her hospital twice a month, for her cancer treating. I also have to inject some medicine into her veins every week (doctor's order). The first time I did that, I almost fainted. I had no problem if anyone did that to me. But inserting a sharp needle into a tender skin of human being? It was so terrible! Really really terrible!

What I want to say is being "no-self" doesn't make this world worse. On the contrary, we need it more and more. For helping, a surgeon has to cut a human body wide-opened. With his "self", how could he still put his scalpel cutting through flesh and blood like that? And he still do that if it was his own kids? (Here, we are not talking about a criminal who can easily hurt other people).
This has something to do with "no-self", hasn't it?   

(yawn) Still feel sleepy. Will come back later. zzzzzz

P.S. I love driving. Like Sharon Robinson's song lyrics (co-written by Leonard Cohen) below:

And I want to drive forever
Wanna roll my windows down
Get the breeze back on my body
Get my feet back on the ground
  

[mojomojo]

Hi Donq,
I can only speak for this part of the world, and it would be lovely to think that surgeons and the like, come from a place of no self, but it is part of their training to see people as less than themselves, if seen as equals, they, as you say could not perform their duty.
It is a result of this, that they often come across as arrogant and detached, and as always there maybe people who do not follow the rule.
Over the years, due to my wife's ill health, I have met many surgeons and doctors.
Only one stayed in my memory, people talk of feeling the energy of a guru, when in his presence, when we walked into the room and sat, you could feel this mans energy fill the entire room, he spoke very clear, yet calm and precise, without becoming too involved, he was the only one, I would state came from a place of no self.

[donq]

Hi Robert,

More than agree as I was in the ICU for two months, and disappointed my doctors by still being alive even they already told my parents that I could not make it. I never like any doctor after that. Most of them have unbearable selves/ego, really. hahaha
Sometimes, the darkest place is under the base of candle (which supposed to give light). How many people were killed in the name of religion?
I believe that you had no-self, Robert. And that was why you could take care your wife so well. If you were self (ish), you would think about your (self) first: your job, money, time etc. There were some couples got divorce because they cared about their selves (jobs etc.) more than their couples.  

[mojomojo]

Hi Donq,




Sometimes, the darkest place is under the base of the candle.
Which is supposed to give light.

I like this saying a lot, Donq.
Who wrote this, or is it your own.

[aceofcups]

or to extend the metaphor...

it lies in the inner wick of the candle,, running through it but hidden within the waxing and waning of life's ups and downs

[sparklekaz]

As I read everyone's posts today, and I think about happiness - what makes us happy, what if any kind of real control we have over our lives. How we cope with - manage - overcome our emotional pain; the letting go and trusting in our higher selves to guide us. I found some comfort and peace in these words by Albert Camus. You may have heard them before, but here they are again.

"In the midst of hate, I found there was, within me, an invincible love. In the midst of tears, I found there was, within me, an invincible smile. In the midst of chaos, I found there was, within me, an invincible calm. In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer. And that makes me happy. For it says that no matter how hard the world pushes against me; Within me, there's something stronger – something better, pushing right back." by Albert Camus

Spiritual growth, self analysis can often leave us feeling weak, confused and vulnerable. These words remind me that I am strong. We are all strong. Within us is something special and unique. Something that cannot be taken from us. We just need to be reminded of it.

Love and light
Kaz

[aceofcups]

Thank you Kaz.. if you hadn't shared and posted the Camus quote - I may have "midst" it..  lol

[donq]

Hi Robert,

I would love to take a credit but cannot. And I'm not sure where it's from as it was long time ago. Perhaps, it was from one of my spiritual teachers. Or I might adapted it from one of Sufi stories (dropping something in the dark but just looking for it under the light, and never found it). But one thing for sure is, on my 35 years of spiritual journey, I have got this personal experience from time to time. For example, a nun, one of disciples of an old monk (who was a teacher of my teacher and passed away for more than 23-24 years), was a bit queer (if not insane) and made dramma (dharma) becomeing drama. She tried to teach her own teaching in our temple. Everyone felt compassion for her, so she never stopped. Until my grandteacher had to do something before most people would get the wrong dramma from her. He said to her, "If you think what's teaching here is underneath yours, you should go to build your own temple and preach there."

Hi Karen,
I love your wit. hahaha

Hi Charlie,
Very true. As the story of the nun above. 

[aceofcups]

monty,

wasn't sure if you were comparing yourself to the nun or me in story,,, either way watch out it can become Habit forming.  

[donq]

Hi Amy,

When I am alone, I tend to see sadness in beauty, or even sadness in happiness.
but when I'm among like-minded friends, I could see beauty in sadness.

Okay, finally I could bring it back to the topic of this thread. And it is rather a long thread now, as least for me (taking a while to load its pages), so I am going to start a new thread with a new topic I had in mind. See you there.