Personal Question(s) about Non-Attachment, and my Nature

[tribunalofmercy]

I was reading an article by Jim Self today, thinking about things, then someone on chat asked something like, “if you went into a monastery and could (potentially) take one thing with you, what would it be? And would it be something you would want or need to hide from others, for some reason?” That got me thinking again, and want to ask for your Insights, advice, etc on something both personal and specific, to me.




I have attributed many ‘eccentric’ thoughts and behavior patterns in my life to my bipolar…perhaps that is Not it - at least, not completely. Whatever the origin, I can See that which both shames and concerns me at times….I deal with it somewhat better now, but not with enough understanding to consistently manipulate it to it’s best use. I say “to its best use”, because I begin to believe my ‘problems’ are not All things that should go away, so much as to be Understood, and brought under control for a Purpose.




It is my nature to enjoy things and then leave them behind. In my past I have gone to extremes in obsessive behavior, whether it be a relationship, work, personal hobbies (like, the internet. Haha), habits or otherwise, but I have learned I can walk away from Any of it - Any of it -  whenever I ‘decide’. When my mind switches gears and I “change realities”.    


Do most people stay in the same home, job, family situation, etc because they have control and Choose to?  Or is it a matter of living in this reality and not imagining any other way?  I don't know how to phrase the question, but I do not think I Know how others think, about this.


I have become much more conscious of my patterns in the last few years and have worked diligently to manage it with understanding….It has irritated me that I have the potential to walk away from friends, family, lifestyle, home…Everything, and not look back. Nothing is truly an “attachment” I Cannot let go of, though I had a hard time walking a path of moderation when I Did attach myself to people and things.    Now it's becoming more of an "If I choose to" thing, but the thinking is still There.



Spiritually, I can see the vibrational cycles in this, that pull me toward or away from everything….I have spent a lifetime often doing what I Know is right, while not having the feelings attached; some of this is directly attributed to the mental illness, and I don’t expect answers to That, lol, but is there another explanation? Have you known others to feel or experience this?




(Ace, please don’t feel I am not listening to you about astrology; I have just not put all the Pieces together yet, lol)

[aceofcups]

Mary Anne said:
(Ace, please don’t feel I am not listening to you about astrology; I have just not put all the Pieces together yet, lol)

You meant I guess you haven't put all the Pisces together yet,, not pieces...lol


peace
aceofcups

[donq]

Hi Mary Anne,

I say “to its best use”, because I begin to believe my ‘problems’ are not All things that should go away, so much as to be Understood, and brought under control for a Purpose.
-Hmm…I think I do understand that. Remember I used to tell about a famous venerable old monk? He had to keep his anger to control his (thousands) disciples. First I didn’t understand but late I did understand. For example, sometimes being in the world, we have to pretend to be not so good persons, to protect ourselves. :-)

P.S. I could only write a short reply here. I'm going to drive my mother for her checking at the hospital. Be back later.

[donq]

Hi Ace,

Hahaha. I also remember Sagittarius as spaghetti. At first, I even remembered our Sparklekaz as Spartacus. Don’t know why I’m confused abut this “S…word” lol

P.S. I'm Leo, I think (some astrological text said my birthday, 3 August, is not Leo?).

[aceofcups]

Monty... August 3rd is diffinately a Leo sun sign.. but in real astrology the Sun sign is only one part of the complete psychological and spiritual picture of a person.

i'm not Lion, you are.

peace
ace

[sparklekaz]

From the little I know about the Bi polar condition Mary Anne. It's that it's not so much the thoughts themselves that are the problem, but the intensity of those thoughts which is influenced by the highs and lows of mood. Mood to me is governed by the emotional attachment to thought. I honestly think this condition must be so hard to diagnose. As as far as I can see 'we all' have the same kinds of thoughts. Someone with bi polar is deemed as having more of an exaggerated reaction to those thoughts as opposed to someone who doesn't. But what is 'normal'? Surely just as we are all unique. And our reaction to what we experience is unique. The spectrum of human behaviour is so broad. So normality seems to me to be measured by what is deemed as 'normal' by society, rather then simply accepting that the strength of reaction or emotional attachment will be different depending on charactor, personality and the effect on an individual of life experience. So what I'm trying to say is, that when you said, how much of my behaviour and thought process is down to me or down to my condition. I would say that your thoughts are down to you, but how you react to those thoughts can be influenced by your sensitivity and emotional state. But that could be said about 'anyone' couldn't it.

If say for instance someone had been in a car accident and for ever after was a nervous passenger. They might react strongly to what is to most people, not a particularly dangerous situation while driving. That doesn't mean they have a mental health condition. Simply that they have a strong emotional response to something that they have a negative attachment too. Or if a man or women has been cheated on in a previous relationship, afterwards becoming insecure, jealous, paranoid and suspicious. That might be seen as abnormal behaviour by others. But for them, it's a reaction caused by a previous experience. One might say that someone with bi polar doesn't have to have had a negative experience to over react or over think something. But as I think we all have experienced to some degree, anxiety does not have to have it's roots in any one experience. Sometimes it can just happen simply because the individual is just very sensitive and highly strung. I do believe we can be born like this.

As someone who has suffered with anxiety from a very young age, I have learned coping techniques to deal with anxiety. I can go for months without a anxiety attack or period of anxious thinking. And have come to recognize the triggers that can set it off. I have found self analysis and being mindful to be extremely helpful. But have to say that even these things can have a negative knock on effect, if taken to the extreme. If I can explain. Understanding why I react as I do, using positive self talk and staying focused 'in the moment' to keep me grounded. But every so often, internal dialogue can get stuck in a kind of loop, when I argue back and forth with myself. I get caught up in mental conflict. Just as we try to see a situation from both points of view when listening to two people who have differing opinions. We can go into overdrive playing 'devils advocate' with ourselves. When I become too much in the head, I lose my sense of being grounded and almost have a sense of being outside of myself looking on. Being the observer cut off from reality. My intellect tells me this isn't right and so I panic. This is when that horrible fast mind, rapid thinking kicks in and it makes me very anxious Most of the time I recognize this and make a conscious decision to stop it and do something very physical that requires little thought, but is what it is. Like cleaning the house. Or I will read a favourite book, watch a funny film. Anything to break up the over thinking. And it does work. Being self aware if very good for self understanding, but is no good if we end up tying ourselves up into mental knots. Do you see what I mean with this?

I see you are a very inteligent women with a good mind. Who sometimes over analyses herself (I say sometimes, but I bet in reality it's a lot ) I see your also very sensitive and intuitive. Which is a lovely balance. Or it should be. Notice that when the balance is right, you feel calm and are fluid. When one side is too dominant, this is where I see you getting anxious. We are all a contradiction at times. A mix of vulnerability and confidence. Depending how we are feeling at the time, will I feel dictate how we deal with outside influence and input. I.e the opinions and criticisms of others. I find a helpful way of dealing with this is everytime I find myself getting upset or less able to cope with what is going on around me. I do an internal check on how strong or weak I'm feeling. If I'm feeling weak, (as in over-tired and stressed) I tell myself that it's not about what's being said, it's how I'm reacting due to how I feel in that moment. If I'm feeling strong, then I think I can safely accept that my reaction is accurate and that maybe I need to explore whatever issue has come up in more detail. I do know that those of us who are in their heads a lot, need to monitor this tendency. Walking a spiritual path does mean that by our very natures we are deep thinkers and those of us who are very emotional and empathic, need to be aware of our vulnerabilities and weaknesses and how that impacts upon us. And work to strengthen them. I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to regularly ground ourselves. Even if it's just a walk around the block.

Love and light
Kaz

[tribunalofmercy]

Yes, Karen - was thinking about that this morning, because while it's good to remain aware, and thinking, at what point do we notice our analyzing has brought us to a full stop, frozen in place? (you have talked about this before).

Things become a cycle for me, but it's Everyone to some degree, like you say. My mood changes and with the change, somehow I don't ground as well; get out of my routine, don't spend the same time in meditation, which leads to More chaos and disorganized thinking, or more analyzation....a cycle


I was thinking also about Monty’s road sign – “Ignore this sign”, you know? Because that is Exactly what I need to be doing, sometimes. I wonder how much of this, that I described above, is conditioned “movement” (based on signs that we get, in the form of feedback and instruction, positive or negative, along the way) and how much is cosmic, spiritual movement, that I am reacting to, when I actually feel a “change”.


Maybe it’s just a lack of synchronicity that I am noticing? I’ve blamed that on Other things, lol. Maybe it’s the interpretation that does the most damage. Which makes sense…maybe our sensitivity causes me to Notice larger shifts but I interpret it as a Personal shift, and act on it without knowing what it’s all About.


…and, maybe it’s the fact that I’m a pisces? Haha – Okay…..I truly doubt all pisceans wander off every couple of years and become someone Different.


Thanks for letting me think this through (but not too much!  lol)…whatever started again, back in 2011, must Finish its cycle, so I can come out Better for it. I know I am different now, but not Enough to keep me from the struggle, lol. I simply Cannot allow myself to go back to the way things Were.

[tribunalofmercy]

Oh, wow, I am having the Serious epiphany. And I'm glad I started the thread, even if it's not the best topic...it's Helping.

I cannot Believe the control/authority issues I have; it's passive, but my goodness, I have Not let them go yet. It's Better, but there are things coming out of the Woodwork this past week, and I want them Gone.

Parents, siblings - told me what to say, what to wear, where to go, what to think, how to act, what to believe, etc etc - this, I knew. Law of Attraction brought me to relationships where people needed me, but then wanted to change my actions, thinking, clothes, interests, habits, Everything.

I Know this. I Know better. Since 2011, I have started Learning what interests "me" First, before I start to lose those "interests" under pressure and react to that by feeling defensive. But the passive association is bringing things to my mind that translate as "I have to Leave now", on a regular basis, when triggers come from Anywhere....when I Don't (have to leave. or change).


Attachments are a Spiritual battle. Ego is a Spiritual battle. Everything is a spiritual battle.

Good Grief - I mean, the REASON I am having such difficulty with meditation over the last month, is because I am feeling I am not "doing it right", MY way, because I perceive that everyone Else is doing it Another way, and my old nature is asserting itself. MY way, was Working. But it's not Now, because I have been both told, and I have assumed in myself by observation, that I was not Doing it right. (So I'm having performance anxiety and I Stopped Meditating, for the most part)


Self-confidence is going to take a Lot of work, but then, doesn't everything?

[sparklekaz]

Hi Mary anne.. you did make me smile when you said " Thanks for letting me think this through (but not too much! lol)" You are so not alone in this. Thinking, analyzing has been my 'saving grace' but over thinking and over analysing has at times been my 'Nemesis' lol.

You said "Things become a cycle for me, but it's Everyone to some degree, like you say. My mood changes and with the change, somehow I don't ground as well; get out of my routine, don't spend the same time in meditation, which leads to More chaos and disorganized thinking, or more analyzation....a cycle " Again, I can relate to this and I'm sure many other's do too. But the good thing is you recognize it. The trick is I think, is to 'nip it in the bud' before it becomes full blown cycle. This is where being aware is beneficial. But not so 'aware' that you almost find yourself outside looking in as the 'observer'. So watch it if you have a tendency when becoming stressed to detach.

You said "I was thinking also about Monty’s road sign – “Ignore this sign”, you know? Because that is Exactly what I need to be doing, sometimes. I wonder how much of this, that I described above, is conditioned “movement” (based on signs that we get, in the form of feedback and instruction, positive or negative, along the way) and how much is cosmic, spiritual movement, that I am reacting to, when I actually feel a “change”. I do think there is a danger when trying to be open to the universe and looking for or waiting for sign's or guidance in the form of syncronistic happenings - we start to see 'sign's everywhere'. My feeling is if it's a real sign or something synronistic that's important, we don't have to 'think' about it.. We get such a powerful gut reaction, that we 'just know'. I don't think you will ever go back to the 'way things were' Mary anne. Why - because you are not the same person you were then.

You said "Attachments are a Spiritual battle. Ego is a Spiritual battle. Everything is a spiritual battle." Who are you battling with? Why does it have to be a battle? My thoughts are that anything we fight with, just clings on even harder. What is it they say.. don't try to kill, subdue, parts of yourself. Embrace them with love, compassion and understanding - then rise above them.

When you feel the need to leave. Is this because you cannot cope any longer with the situation, so your running away from it. Or, Are you no longer emotionally attached to the situation, so feel it no longer has something to teach you and your now ready to move on. To experience new things, to find fresh challenges. Do you think it's any of these things, or possibly a karmic thing. Something inside you simply says it's time to move on. I'm guessing you know that internal issues, manifested externally, we take with us wherever we go. Different scenario's maybe, but same issues. I understanding the need to leave and change things, more then you realize. So I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.

The meditation thing, that made me smile. You are not the only one who says they have no expectation with meditation. But yet constantly criticizes themselves for not doing it right. Or believe everyone else is doing it properly and they are not. News flash! - there is no right or wrong way, there is only 'your way'. It sounds to me as if your on a big growth curve. I want to say to you, why not kick off your shoes, let your hair down, go whoo hoo hoo and just enjoy the ride. It shouldn't be a battle. I know though how at times it can seem like one. I know what it's like to feel at odds with oneself. To struggle and fight trying to subdue a part of ourselves that we feel is wrong. I've come to understand I cannot break myself into bits and pieces of things I love and dislike about myself. I've tried to be more compassionate and forgiving, more understanding of myself. Deep down inside, I just know it's not supposed to be like that. My heart tells me, it's mean't to be a love affair - with life, with God, the divine, or whatever you want to call it. The gift of coming to spiritual awareness, that you give to yourself. xx

Love and light
Kaz

[baangus]

Feb 16, 2015 17:07:11 GMT sparklekaz said:

Why does it have to be a battle? 

Hi Kaz. This is such an important point and insight as it pertains to holistic spirituality and the self-realization path. I spent so many years following religious dogma and then spiritual doctrine that always presented spirit as some cosmic battle between good and evil, soul and body, truth versus untruth... I became sick as a result as I have previously outlined here. My healing had much to do with the epiphany I had regarding the many destructive beliefs I nurtured for decades regarding negative spirit beings and a malevolent universe. 

The universe is entirely benevolent. Someone told me that once; it woke me up and I have never forgotten it. And more than that, it has become my life mantra and meditation.

[tribunalofmercy]

Um.....hmmmm. Maybe the battle I am having, is because I perceive I am a fish in a net - like Monty described in another thread? maybe the net is irrelevant; maybe the fish is irrelevant; maybe the whole struggle is just a perspective that I need to step back from?

[baangus]

Feb 15, 2015 21:57:10 GMT tribunalofmercy said:

It has irritated me that I have the potential to walk away from friends, family, lifestyle, home…Everything, and not look back. Nothing is truly an “attachment” I Cannot let go of, though I had a hard time walking a path of moderation when I Did attach myself to people and things.    Now it's becoming more of an "If I choose to" thing, but the thinking is still There.

Hi tribunalofmercy. If something is irritating, is that not a sign one is attached to a specific outcome or way of being? I have detached myself from so much of my past life, including family and friends, yes. But I understand and accept that's just one aspect of my path this lifetime. I don't see any of it as right or wrong, or of any particular importance or significance. It's just the way I am at this point in my spiritual journey. Perhaps it will all change for me next year, and I'll spend the next decade or two developing healthy attachments to people and things I don't currently think twice about. For me, staying true to one's soul journey, whatever that entails, is the only consideration. 

[mojomojo]

Hi Mary Anne,
I do not think I have any thing of value to offer you, only to share my perspective on the matter.
I'am ashamed to say I know very little about bi polar disorder, as my sister suffers from the same, only that she suffers from extreme highs or lows, and maintaining a steady medium is a constant struggle.
But the detachment thing with people is something I have always done, I do not mean this in a bad way, but I have never had a need to fit in, and far prefer to be alone, but that is an aquarian trait. I can take or leave family members, friends, I have grown up with, I have never even attempted to keep in contact with, people take this up as been cold and uncaring, but it's not, if I met one tomorrow I would be genuinely delighted to see them, but the need to keep in constant contact, is just not there for me.

The spiritual battle for me is when I get too caught up in the mind, and start questioning everything, then I realise I'am out of alignment, and once I realise it, I'm back in again, until mind creeps back in again. Something as simple as a book can put me back in the zone, or obviously meditation.
Mind you I have not meditated for a while, it's that annoying feeling of been watched by an energy that puts me off, which leads me to wonder, can the ego separate from the true self, I ask this because when I got my reiki 1, many years ago, the reiki master said, part of me got up and walked out, didn't want to know, and that she had only about 40 per cent of me to work on, so when I move closer to the light, a part of me doesn't want to know and separates, so basically I'am starring at myself, can an ego have that much hold, how weird is that.

Guess we all have our battles.
GOD bless,
Robert.

[tribunalofmercy]

Robert You said, "the detachment thing with people is something I have always done, I do not mean this in a bad way, but I have never had a need to fit in, and far prefer to be alone, but that is an aquarian trait. I can take or leave family members, friends, I have grown up with, I have never even attempted to keep in contact with, people take this up as been cold and uncaring, but it's not, if I met one tomorrow I would be genuinely delighted to see them, but the need to keep in constant contact, is just not there for me."


Yes – that describes it pretty well; perhaps Because of my upbringing I have felt both incorrect, and guilty, for my feelings in this way. I’m wondering how to put this all Together, you know? To understand what is appropriate to feel, what needs to be subjugated because of duty,responsibility, etc, and what needs to be Opened in myself to better accept who I am, on a daily basis, while still keeping my desire to be my brother’s keeper. The “balance”, If that makes sense.


So many energy-interactions cause responses in us that we learn to Deal with, until another/better way is revealed. Like distancing ourselves from others when we Know they bring us down, for example. That's considered normal, and yet...? Somehow I believe Karen’s description of a “love affair” with life, and therefore everything About ‘life’, is something quite Possible, eventually, and that will render all of our dualities within relationships irrelevant because we have simply gotten Past everything that used to irritate us and hold us back. (Will it end up being as simple as Dostoevsky described it, Monty? )


As a bipolar, I go in and out of that state; sometimes I am There, and I can Do it, but sometimes I am Not. (you’ve seen that, by now) But that’s not so different, in its description, from any vibrational cycle here that keeps bringing us closer to, and further away from, our perfection we strive for, is it?



Hmmm, practical application: you know, my sisters are both ‘crafty’ people, always making things, quilting, etc and I am just Not so ‘into’ crafting – no matter how much I would Like to be, I’m a Writer. I can sit down with a bunch of things and have “crafter’s block”, haha, while that Never happens in writing. However, what I Am, is a people-person. A human empath, driven to people….so an example of crafting that comes naturally to me, often shows up when I am depressed. No matter How depressed I am, I start thinking of someone who is more depressed, etc than I am….suddenly I am making something for them. A craft, if you will. Oh, I might just visit or cook something for them instead, but lately it’s been decorative “Encouragement Jars”, filled with positive thoughts and simple things so the other person can open up and pull out one thing Each day for a month, and Remember they are loved and thought of.


Something I am not so good at, suddenly becomes Perfect, when the intent is driven by love and compassion in the direction of Another. It’s Perspective, and maybe the very Fact that I can leave attachments behind so easily when it is truly Needed, is not a negative thing….those are the kinds of things that might make a person good at working with the Peace Corps, or with Hospice. Or being able to be Strong for another, at the right time, because there is not so much of that Personal clutter in their/my Own heart when hard times come.


I love easily, and I let go easily. But perhaps that part, is Nature. Perhaps my tendency to run away from uncomfortable things, and change Direction, is merely Conditioned…and That, can be unlearned.



Oh, and Robert? I know there are still a couple of places my mind “won’t go” yet either, but I am trying to get Uncomfortable enough to see what I am Missing. I’ll let you know if I survive

[donq]

Mary Anne,

I've just found this photo (&quote). It might fit to this thread.:-)