A fish in quicksand?

[donq]

Today I was thinking about the main problems in my life. It seemed that I tried to act like a fish. When I dealt with a serious problem, I only tried to “push” forward, like a fish in a fish trap, and that made my situation getting worse (if not worst).

If only I just stopped pushing and stepped back…

Or it seemed like a man being stuck in quicksand. The more he tried to move, the deeper he was sunk. Not struggling in that situation could make him survive? I don’t know. But one thing for sure is, at least, that kind of struggle was not the way out. On the contrary, the less he struggled, (or even stop struggle at all), the more he would have more time to find out another solution, maybe the better one?

[tribunalofmercy]

Perhaps the fish is not “in the moment”, but busy looking at Another moment, outside of the net? The fish is not so evolved as the Man, yet for us too, the Eye is in the way of the Mind. There is always a lesson in the Net, but aren’t we busy focused on what we are Missing, beyond it? In the case of the fish and the net (unlike the butterfly), the struggle does Not make us stronger, does it?

(I still struggle, Monty. Haha – yesterday I fell and sprained my hand, broke a finger and now must type Very slowly….I must relax, stop struggling to type More, lol)

[donq]

Good thinking! It reminds me of Chuang Tze’s story:

One day Chuang Tzu and a friend were strolling on Bridge Hao, "Look at the fish swimming about," said Chuang Tzu, "They are really enjoying themselves."
"You are not a fish," replied the friend, "So you can't truly know that they are enjoying themselves."
"You are not me," said Chuang Tzu. "So how do you know that I do not know that the fish are enjoying themselves?"
The friend, "Of course I'm not you, and I don't know what you think; But I do know that you're not a fish, and so you couldn't possibly know the fish are happy."
Chuang Tzu, "Look, when you asked me how I knew the fish were happy, you already knew that I knew the fish were happy. I knew it from my feelings standing on this bridge.”

Hmm….frankly speak, I don’t think the last few sentences makes senses. Hahaha

You said, “The fish is not so evolved as the Man, yet for us too, the Eye is in the way of the Mind. There is always a lesson in the Net, but aren’t we busy focused on what we are Missing, beyond it?”
Again, very good point!

Chuang Tzu also said (in another context), “The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”

About the struggle. I was smoking at the terrace and saw my neighbor, a 45 years old woman was struggle to carry her heavy stuff into her car. I asked if she needed some help, she said no. If she was younger than that, I might not (dare to) offer my help or she might misunderstand my intention. My point is that my struggle was vain? I don’t know. But somehow it depends on my (pure) intention, right?

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

I can really relate to this post, particularly when younger. It's easy to say to someone 'stay calm, don't panic', when they are dealing with a difficult situation. Because we don't have the emotional attachment to the issue. I liken it to the 'fight or flight' syndrome. Just as in life if we were presented by a ferocious dog, our first reaction would be to turn and run. When faced with a emotionally upsetting moral dilemma or problem, if not prepared, the mind immediately jumps into panic mode.

I imagine my brain/mind suddenly firing off thoughts like firecrackers as it desperately tries to find a solution. So just as in your story the man flails his arms around wildly trying to pull himself out, so does the brain grab onto anything, so as to resolve things quickly. Often finding, just like the man whose struggles cause him to sink faster, the impulsive thoughts and reactions often make matters worse. So the key is as you've pointed out, to try to remain calm, when in the middle of chaos. I don't know about you, but I didn't just cultivate calmness. I learned the hard way through bitter experience, the consequences of panic mode reactions. That more then anything else has taught me the wisdom of putting on the mental brakes and holding off from knee jerk reactions.

There are lots of lovely wise quotes about the wisdom of not being led/controlled by our emotions, of taking a step back and calming the mind before speaking. My favourite ones are - "Have patience. Wait until the mud settles and the water is clear. Remain unmoving until right action arises by itself” by Lao Tzu. And "Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world" by Hans Margolius. I do so love quotes about water or metaphors that use water to describe mood and feelings. I'm sorry your offer of help was rejected Monty. It's a sad state of affairs, that we live in a society that refuses help out of fear. Fear of being taken advantage of, fear of hidden motive. Sometimes even fear of appearing weak or vulnerable.

Do I still react like a 'headless chicken' when upset or confronted with a difficult situation? For the majority of the time I do not. I centre myself and find my 'eye of the storm'. It literally does feel as if I have stepped 'outside' of the situation. It is as if time slows down and I can see other's rushing madly about, round in circles, but never getting anything done. This has helped me a lot, particularly in work situations. I guess part of it is because have struggled for years with panic attacks. My way of learning to deal with them is to consciously slow breathing down and be aware of my thinking patterns and how that directly affects me. I understand this really well now. It may not work for everyone, but it does for me. Of course there can be times when detaching from the chaos can be so profound that it becomes hard to re-connect emotionally again. An interesting post Monty.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi Karen,

Sorry for my late reply. I went out (drive a car) yesterday and very exhausted.
Very good post again, and I'm going to reply as a long post.
But after...my mum's business. hahaha
As for you, goodnight and sleep well.

[donq]

Dear Karen,

You said,
“I can really relate to this post, particularly when younger. It's easy to say to someone 'stay calm, don't panic', when they are dealing with a difficult situation. Because we don't have the emotional attachment to the issue. I liken it to the 'fight or flight' syndrome. Just as in life if we were presented by a ferocious dog, our first reaction would be to turn and run. When faced with a emotionally upsetting moral dilemma or problem, if not prepared, the mind immediately jumps into panic mode.”

-I was thinking about this scene: A professor just finished his class, was thinking about something while walking back to his office, when the ball from students who were playing in the field nearby came to hit him forcefully until he fell to the ground. The professor might do the following things:
1. Reprimand those students severely and will give all of them F in his class for his vengeance.
2. Thinks to himself, "Today is my jinxed day! Have to go to get some holy water, to change my jinx through a ceremony."
3. Go to consult a fortune teller, to know in advance which day will be a bad day like this, so that he could avoid going to anywhere.
4. Seriously read/study "How to duck a ball, effectively!"
5. Ruminates that it should have been something wrong in his life. Why did the outside event effect his inside? For example, if he was not absentminded, he should duck the ball in time or had a better reaction etc.
(Ah, ok. As for 5., it might be too obvious for anyone who is interested in spirituality. Hahaha)

“I imagine my brain/mind suddenly firing off thoughts like firecrackers as it desperately tries to find a solution. So just as in your story the man flails his arms around wildly trying to pull himself out, so does the brain grab onto anything, so as to resolve things quickly. Often finding, just like the man whose struggles cause him to sink faster, the impulsive thoughts and reactions often make matters worse.
-There's a saying, "Could a cell in bird's wing determine its fate?"
What a scientist try to do is studying a very tiny cell such as those on a bird's wing. There's a joke (which is true) that, "You study a whole agricultural science for getting your bachelor's degree; studying garden plants for your master degree; but studying only eggplant for getting your Ph.D. :-)
As for the man in the quicksand, as you pointed out about “emotional attachment to the issue” (and you already pointed out somewhere else on another thread), no matter how much he knew about the mechanism of his brain, it seemed when he faced the real issue, those brain’s knowledge (science) doesn’t seem to work well any more. I mean he might know that he should try to calm down. The only problem was he could not!
My point is that science seems to try to take a closer look on everything; try to find the basic of everything. The problem is, in the real life situation, things don't always work that way. Even we gain more knowledge how the tiny cell in our brain work, it doesn't mean we gain more understanding on how our mind really work. So many times, we have to step back to look at a distant, to see its big/whole picture. And this might be the way to detach ourselves, to gain the better perspective. As you mentioned somewhere about a surgeon. Yes, how could a surgeon operate on his/her own kids, even for saving their lives, right? Most (if not all) of us could not detach ourselves that far, even for saving other’s lives!

“I don't know about you, but I didn't just cultivate calmness. I learned the hard way through bitter experience, the consequences of panic mode reactions. That more than anything else has taught me the wisdom of putting on the mental brakes and holding off from knee jerk reactions.”
-So did I, Karen. Somehow I think that the hard way might be the only way to break those vicious circle in us. I mean, like the man in the quicksand, we knew what we should do, but it still needed all of our efforts to break our…what to call...bad habits? I had many bad habits which always brought me to very serious troubles. I knew very well about all those bad habits. But it still took me so long time to get rid of them, one by one. And the only reason I could do that because I learned it the hard way. I learned that how worse/worst it might be if I still spoiled my bad habits.

“There are lots of lovely wise quotes about the wisdom of not being led/controlled by our emotions, of taking a step back and calming the mind before speaking. My favourite ones are – ‘Have patience. Wait until the mud settles and the water is clear. Remain unmoving until right action arises by itself’ by Lao Tzu. And ‘Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world" by Hans Margolius. I do so love quotes about water or metaphors that use water to describe mood and feelings.’
-Me, too. I do love quotes about water. Here’s from Su shih (Su Tung-po). A great Chinese poet (1037 – 1101).

Bringing Tao into practice: One should plan to “achieve practice.” Water will serve as an analogy for this. Knowing how one floats and knowing how one sinks, and exhausting all the variations of water and in every case having the means to respond (to its variations) is getting to the essence of principles. Knowing floating and sinking and being one with water, without (consciously) knowing it to be water, is entering fundamental unity. He who is one with it without (consciously) knowing it to be water will always be good at swimming…This is what is meant by achieving practice.

Swimming is a practical example of how men can act in accord with Tao and stay afloat in the world of change.

To be a bit modern analogy, driving a car? We will enter this fundamental unity (Tao) if, after long time of driving experience, we are one with our cars, one with the street; we are unconsciously driving. This is not absentminded. On the contrary, it’s the unity state of driving. Our mind are so clear and relaxed as if we let our cars driving by themselves (floating), on the street. And if, any accident might happen, we even could save ourselves without knowing how we did it!

“I'm sorry your offer of help was rejected Monty. It's a sad state of affairs, that we live in a society that refuses help out of fear. Fear of being taken advantage of, fear of hidden motive. Sometimes even fear of appearing weak or vulnerable.”
-Thanks Karen. I knew it in advance. Got lots of it. And kind of get used to it. Once I was in a bookstore. After hearing a girl (seller) tried to speak her broken English to her customer (a woman) I offered my help. After I translated what the girl talked and recommended some books, that woman still didn’t talk to me even one word and looked at me, as you said, with her fearful eyes. That time I still was a young man and felt so bad. Now I’m old, and never felt like that any more. I offered helped, just to tell myself that I already did what should to be done. That’s all. hahaha.

“Do I still react like a 'headless chicken' when upset or confronted with a difficult situation? For the majority of the time I do not. I centre myself and find my 'eye of the storm'. It literally does feel as if I have stepped 'outside' of the situation. It is as if time slows down and I can see other's rushing madly about, round in circles, but never getting anything done. This has helped me a lot, particularly in work situations. I guess part of it is because have struggled for years with panic attacks. My way of learning to deal with them is to consciously slow breathing down and be aware of my thinking patterns and how that directly affects me. I understand this really well now. It may not work for everyone, but it does for me. Of course there can be times when detaching from the chaos can be so profound that it becomes hard to re-connect emotionally again.”

-One of my favorite movies is For Love of the Game. Billy (Kevin Costner) battled against his emotional and physical limits as he strove for a Perfect Game. Below is the scene on his “Clear the Mechanism.” Anyway, he got a perfect game, not because of this clearing mechanism but for the Love of the Game as its title. :-)



P.S. Sorry for any typo and errors.

[tribunalofmercy]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here Karen, I really love how you described the calm waters...both of you have such Experience with these times of struggle, and I know these times too - I just have a hard time dealing with the Core of the lesson, you know?

Was thinking about this today, because unfortunately I have a very strong mind-body connection; therefore, if I Believe something, even if I can Rationally/consciously accept that it is Only in my mind, still it affects the rest of me.

I had severe anxiety and panic attacks about 12-15 years ago, and first ran around like the headless-chicken you described, until I Understood them better. Then, over time, I taught myself not to Fear them; to control my heart rate during them; and in the last couple of years, to also better control my blood pressure if I have one. But then something Else comes up, you know? My heart rate may be normal, my blood pressure normal, but then I get flutters and stuttering.   (like holding a water balloon:  I may squeeze one end but all the water/pressure goes to Another end, or out between my fingers, etc.)    I wait and wait and try to fix everything Myself, but sometimes I go to the nice doctor who checks and says I am physically Fine, would I please go home and take mental medication?  lol


It's like, I'm dealing properly with the Symptoms but not reaching the Core of the issue, which can be applied in many areas of our lives, can't it? So it keeps coming back, the same lesson, in other Forms to confuse both me And the doctor...still I Know the core is unfinished business.


If I were a fish in a net and discovered not to struggle - as I have, in a way - I might see a hole through which I could swim. And avoid that particular fishing area, lol. But still there are Other nets out there, in other places, with different methods of holding and different ways to get Out....

Is the solution to go through life slowly memorizing All the fishing areas, and possible escapes from the net, all while being Calm in the trap while I am there? Because that's where I Am, but I feel it is not Enough. Am I supposed to Not get out of the trap, but see what happens when I am raised into the boat? Or am I supposed to strive to become a Bird, instead? (I know the answer is Not to hide in the mud for the rest of my life, lol)


Me ?

[donq]

Hi Mary Anne,

You said,

If I were a fish in a net and discovered not to struggle - as I have, in a way - I might see a hole through which I could swim. And avoid that particular fishing area, lol. But still there are Other nets out there, in other places, with different methods of holding and different ways to get Out....
Is the solution to go through life slowly memorizing All the fishing areas, and possible escapes from the net, all while being Calm in the trap while I am there? Because that's where I Am, but I feel it is not Enough. Am I supposed to Not get out of the trap, but see what happens when I am raised into the boat? Or am I supposed to strive to become a Bird, instead? (I know the answer is Not to hide in the mud for the rest of my life, lol)

Very good question, Mary Anne.
I honestly don’t know the answer for myself either. I believe that, anyone who is walking on his/her spiritual path, will be familiar with synchronicity. The problem is how much we could trust it? As sometimes, there’s also mislead synchronicity, too. I mean, for example, synchronic events, one by one, lead me to, say, a racecourse (horse). I might even bet some and luckily got some money. Is this luck ordained to me? I don’t think so. If I still believe that, I will never find the way out and finally, lost all money I have before I was there, or even get another worse situation (debt etc.)
Yes, we might never known all other nets/traps out there. But I think we still could know what our trend/habit that lead to those traps are. To be more specific, in my past, I tended to love a bad woman. Hahaha. I mean, I knew she was bad but somehow, as a spiritual person, I would love to help her. But I fell into my own trap, my bad habit. (I confused love with helping). So I failed to help her and even myself.
So, I believe that we do know, more or less, that those are traps. And our next tasks are trying to stay away from them. Or trying to find the way out if we are already in those traps. I do know that it’s not an easy task. Not at all.