Learning to Give "and" Receive Love?

[tribunalofmercy]

Sometimes – to me – talking about everyday issues and things seems far Away from what we might first think of, when we think of “spiritual’ things, but I know it’s not so….in our ongoing quest to rise Above our natures and get Closer to ‘God’, we have to grasp the Nature of ourselves, how we came to be this way, how it plays out in our lives, and how to get Past these things (“the four (ig)noble truths of Mary Anne”, lol)




For example, I know I am not the only one who finds it easier to Give, than to receive….yet both are a part of complete Love, and we must See how this affects us in life. Now my family is a good one, in that they had many things to offer their children, my parents stayed married and were home a lot to care for us, etc. They have/had good moral values, did not drink or smoke, etc, tried to treat everyone fairly in business, went faithfully to Church, etc. What this society calls “good people” – and they Are, from that perspective.




I love my family, but they did Not believe in showing affection – therefore we never hugged, kissed goodnight, said the words “I love you’, etc. I was an inconvenience to my parents because I came very late after the other children and was told I was Tolerated, but only if I turned out okay. Because they had other plans and then I came along, you know? My parents, like good parents, wanted me to be just like them and whenever I was Not, I was rejected. Even when other people hurt me, they did not want to know unless it affected their reputation in the community. Then it was Important, and I was at fault. (it didn’t help that I talked to myself, God and angels ever since childhood; I have been Crazy, all my life)




This is not an abusive home life, no. Not at All, but it affected the way I think about Receiving love, in any form, because I saw myself as worthless unless I was doing something my Father approved of. (Like, making money, being pretty, learning to type, gossiping with the girls or going to debutante balls, etc) It’s kind of funny…like Monty, I was basically born reading and read Everything as a child (I only stopped reading Later); my Father was not upset about this but saw it as valuable only because it meant I could properly converse with my husband when I grew up. haha




Incidentally, I don’t know yet about others, but it is not uncommon for those who were raised in the Christian teaching to see God in a personified way; however, it is Just as easy for them to think of ‘God’ as a Father figure, and the way we are treated by our Own fathers often determine how we see and interact with ‘God’ (was he loving? Just and fair? Cruel and unforgiving? Etc)




How do we know when we have gotten “past” an unresolved issue in our lives? Is it when we are tested, and we find out we finally Pass the test and break the cycles that have been created? Some things are easier than other things to me, like Giving 'love':  All of my life I have seen other people as my Equals, not judging by race, religion, gender, money, etc, and it's been easy to 'love' them – but I wonder if that is because of my nature, or because I know how it Feels to be looked down on or rejected in some way? No matter the reason, my life-experience has been a Help in that way.



Though I love people easily, being both willing and able to Give ‘love’, it is not enough because I have been unable to Receive the love of another, without a struggle. This is the way of All my family, sadly. Do you feel able to receive kindness from others easily? Compliments? A helping hand when needed? How do you think it can be made Easier (if at all) for us to Learn this trait?

[sparklekaz]

Dear Mary Anne,

You said "Sometimes – to me – talking about everyday issues and things seems far Away from what we might first think of, when we think of “spiritual’ things, but I know it’s not so…". This is something that took me a while to understand. When I was younger, I saw behaving or acting in a spiritual way was 'removed' from every day life. Because looking at it purely from the surface. I only saw that 'every day life' our 'interactions' with others, could be challenging. As in how other people behave, can trigger off a similar response in ourselves. Which is all well and good when they are good reactions. But when they are not, when they are unkind, selfish, thoughtless, when they push our buttons, we get upset and angry and sometimes retaliate in kind. I thought to be a spiritual person, we almost had to live within a rarified bubble of peace and love. Protected from the negativity of other people. I know I am not an aggressive person who looks for confrontation or conflict. And yet, it seemed that I was always 'reacting' to other people.

Now I'm older, a bit wiser (hopefully) and I see that removing yourself from an environment to be a spiritual person, is not how spiritual growth occurs. I'm not saying removing ourselves from the world isn't condusive to spiritual growth. But for most of us, life just doesn't work out like that. I came to realize that it was through my interaction with others, through dealing with difficult situations, trying to at least, that I was growing. For it is only through our relationships do we learn about forgiveness, compassion and patience. But most importantly we come to understand ourselves. What makes us tick. What are our triggers. Why do certain situations bring out the worst in us. By understanding this, then maybe we can do something about it. I like to think I have learned some valuable lessons. I have to say though, that sometimes, even understanding why I react the way I do, doesn't always stop me from reacting. Old habits die hard. And I'm still hurt, even if I understand why I'm feeling hurt, if that makes sense.

You say Mary Anne, that your home life was not an abusive one. But.. you then go on to say how it made you feel worthless. You also said, said that you can see why it's affected the way you receive love or give it. So what is your definition of 'abusive'? People tend to think abusive only relates to physical abuse. Or psychological abuse as in bullying, controling behaviour. I tend to see abusive, as anything that demeans, deminishes a persons self esteem and self love. Abusive, is anything that corrupts, contaminates a person's ability to go on a live a healthy life. Not just physically healthy, but a healthy emotional and psychological life. To be told that you were not wanted, even if it is couched in words of 'not expected'. That whether or not your 'being a good thing' for the family was totally dependent on how you 'turned out'. And that behaviour was solely based on what your parents deemed as being a good daughter. Emulating their behaviour, lifestyle and life choices. You grew up believing you had to 'earn' people's love and affection, by conforming or behaving in such a way that was their way, and your thoughts on the matter was immaterial.

I would say that you have turned out to be the warm hearted, articulate and loving women that you are, is more down to your strong personality and lovely character, then it is about anything else. That you are all those things, in spite of your upbringing, rather then because of it, is a testament to you as a person. Do you think in this instance, your bi polar nature has been your strength. Because you have a unique way of seeing beyond, rising above the behaviour of others. In other words, the bi polar aspect of you. I say aspect, because you are not a 'condition', it is a part of you, but not all of you. If you had not got this aspect of you, do you think the influence your parents would have had on shaping the women you have become would have had an even more crippling effect?

You say "How do we know when we have gotten “past” an unresolved issue in our lives? Is it when we are tested, and we find out we finally Pass the test and break the cycles that have been created?" I have come to believe we never stop being tested. That we may think we have gotten past something, bam.. out it will come again to try to trip us up. In a different way, a different form, but it will always test us. I believe that just like a ex smoker is doomed if they ever start smoking again, believing just one wont get me hooked again. Or the alcoholic who believes that they are cured and can have a drink now and then just to be social. If we have an issue or weakness, it is always there. And it's something that we need to be vigilent over. I now, never say I will never ever do something again. Because I feel it's like snubbing my nose at the universe as if to say nah nah, you wont catch me out with that one again. And someone up there is laughing saying 'do you want to bet on that!!" lol As my mum always used to say, 'pride always cometh before a fall'. So being aware, mean's staying aware and not falling into complacency.

You said "Though I love people easily, being both willing and able to Give ‘love’, it is not enough because I have been unable to Receive the love of another, without a struggle. This is the way of All my family, sadly. Do you feel able to receive kindness from others easily? Compliments? A helping hand when needed? How do you think it can be made Easier (if at all) for us to Learn this trait?" I love people easily.. too easily sometimes. And have had this exploited. The problem for me is, and I think we are alike in this. That we both don't truly believe we deserve to be loved, or are lovable. We both have felt that love was something that had to be earned. Be a good girl, do as your told, don't rock the boat. Submit your will to mine. Both of us probably made mistakes because we were so desperate to be loved, that we chose to ignore the warning bells, the signs that it wasn't right.

I look even at my own children, whom I love unconditionally, and still feel that even they only love me if I am giving them something or doing, acting in a way in which they want me to. I respect another's right to their individualism, to their right to make their own choices, and even if I don't like it, I would never withdraw my support, love and loyalty. I can honestly say, I've rarely seen that reciprocated. Which kind of reinforces my belief, even if it's unconsciously, that love has to be earned to be kept. I love getting compliments, but find it embaressing sometimes. And deep down wonder if what they say is truly deserved.

Love and light
Kaz

[tribunalofmercy]

We do have a number of things in common, Karen – it is how, in my understanding, our energy signatures have formed – as a combination of both of soul-nature and our developed personalities – so even when we Don’t know each other well at the first, it is easier to Connect with those who mirror ourselves, even as we see it subconsciously It’s easy to love you! But it is nice to believe I seek to love Every person with this ease – just as I see you do - and Obviously it has to do with both that soul-nature, astrological alignment And the experiences of this life. (and maybe some karma, haha).


One thing taught in some circles I am involved in, is that energy healing Releases us from the need to examine our pasts at All; I see the benefit of this in some ways, because it is human nature to “dwell”, you know? And not to want to let Go of things that still haunt us…but sometimes the healing given from these that I know, gives only Temporary relief, because the shadow-side of us still Lives, even as we release it for a time (in the healing). So how to get rid of it Forever? Truly move Past it?


Like the idea of embracing love while remaining unable to forgive those who trigger us. Like your description of saying, “I Will Never do/think/feel that again!” while the Universe is holding out an even Harder test for us that we may or may not pass, the next time. I do believe there comes a time when we pass a particular test Every time, but it will be only one of Many tests to bring us to selflessness….


Until I See, and Understand, that I am still reluctant to receive love, it continues to be an unresolved issue, showing up in many ways in my life. As it does for Many, because of our conditioning that there is something Lacking in us, somehow, that does not Deserve the love that is offered. Even when we Learn it’s not so, it is a struggle to Walk in such knowledge, and you described this – Knowing something but still being unable to Control it.…the difference between seeing, Knowing and Being, as has been mentioned in another thread.


Letting go seems Crucial, and I have found it personally helpful to Stare at it, not afraid but when strong enough to See it without quivering; to recognize that it is a molehill instead of a mountain, and Can be released – perhaps because I am optimistic enough to believe if I can do it in One area of life, why not (eventually) in the Other areas too?


How many ways do we See, in our lives, that we are not able to give or receive love? Is it just about marriage-type relationships, or about prejudices? Is it just about how we feel about Ourselves when standing next to those people whose opinion Matters to us, and they reject us? Is it, perhaps, in the very way we unconsciously attract, or are attracted to, all those who we Know somehow are suited to the way WE think of ourselves, because they feel similar? (or worse, that we feel we Deserve to be insulted or rejected and so we reach for those we Know will probably treat us that way)?


Does it affect the jobs we choose, the products we buy? Perhaps I choose a job that is easy because I want to feel Successful without risking failure. Perhaps I buy dark colors instead of bright ones because my personality feels more comfortable not attracting too much attention to myself. Ace has given much to think about, when it comes to our birth-charts and how we Naturally move within this life, in every way from the job to the relationships and the colors and furniture we buy, but how much of all this is affected by the ego-personality that has developed, and by how we see the idea of Love, the giving and receiving of it, by our perceived Worth?


So which way of dealing with this, getting past it, is better? Do you (all) think it is more productive/successful to examine ourselves and See the origins, the manifestation of it all in our lives, or just “heal everything and be done with it, because now we Can”? (like some of that newer healing)

[cyberangel]

Beautifully written Karen and Mary Anne. Sorry for quick post but im just heading out now. Hope to return to this later.

Love and Light

[mojomojo]

Hi all,
Just wanted to add this,

Mental abuse, emotional abuse, physical abuse and sexual abuse, believe it or not all do the same damage to the same degree.
Some find that hard to believe, but it is proven fact, each type of abuse leaves you with a feeling of worthless, no self esteem, no confidence and you have been robbed of the fundamental nature of trust, there are varying levels of it, but they all do the same damage. Saying, ah, it wasn't that bad, there is plenty who had it worse, is, sorry, denial.


In my opinion, mind you I know nothing of these new healing methods, but they seem to by pass the problem rather than deal with it, the only way to get rid of it, is to meet it head on, be brutally honest with yourself, and face it head on, and keep doing it, remove all denial, and face it regularly, until it becomes boring, then you are starting to heal, then the anger subsides.
Trying to stop getting angry at certain trigger points, while there is a volcano erupting inside, in my opinion is not dealing with it.
I'am not saying it is easy, it's not, it's probably one of the hardest things you will ever do, it will be ten times worse when you start, you are opening up old wounds, it is going to hurt, you will start to remember more stuff, you had forgotten, if you feel it's too hard to do on your own, find a group session, where there is more support.

When you come out the other end you will feel like a ton weight has been lifted off, you will be a different person.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'am an expert on the matter, but I can pick up on someone who has gone through abuse, just by their words and manner,
I'am not an expert or qualified to give advice on the matter,this is my opinion, so take from it what you will, and if it sounds like rubbish, fine, no problem.
Sorry, if this was, too up front.


Robert.

[tribunalofmercy]

It's not too up-front, Robert

The benefit of walking in the New way, is two-fold: I do my best in what I know now, and the Universe seems to align the rest, you know?

So I have strengthened the relationships I need to have with my two sisters (brother passed many years ago); made peace with my sister's family and with my Own ex-husband; strengthened my relationship with my son to the point that we get along with both love And respect; and ended up living Here, the only one near my parents now, so that they are learning to see me as an adult and to Lean on me, knowing I have grown past the issues we once had and seeing that they can Trust our relationship enough to know I want what's best for them yet will treat them with that love and respect that has no walls built up.


I could not have foreseen all that would transpire over the last three years, but it is Amazing to me to watch these things "fall into place"; I know that, no matter what comes, I am walking in the way of Peace, of Truth, and it brings all things into fruition.

This has been part of learning to both give and receive the right Kind of love. I am still nervous, insecure about certain trigger people that show up in my life, knowing that these times will be Tests, but I am truly Not the person I was - bound by my past as surely as with any chains.

We Never stop learning and growing, though. I still fight the urge to project my own low self-esteem onto others sometimes; I still want to Run Away when I perceive rejection, but after about 15 minutes it does not Matter so much what people think of me I am still Free to Choose how I conduct myself, and even though I don't get it right every time,  that knowledge is Priceless.

[donq]

Hi Mary Anne & Karen,

This post will be my thinking about both of your posts. So, it might appear as if I’m talking to myself, like a nutjob. :-)

Mary Anne raised the questions:
"How do we know when we have gotten “past” an unresolved issue in our lives? Is it when we are tested, and we find out we finally Pass the test and break the cycles that have been created?"

And Karen said:
I now, never say I will never ever do something again. Because I feel it's like snubbing my nose at the universe as if to say nah nah, you wont catch me out with that one again. And someone up there is laughing saying 'do you want to bet on that!!’ lol

Hmm…Why did Mary Anne raise those questions even she already knew the answers? Somehow she knew that she already passed her final test and she has feel at home with herself for a very long time.

Why did Karen say she would “never say never”? But I have a feeling that she knows for sure she will never do some “certain” things again.

Maybe it’s about their humbleness? Because that’s the great sign of spirituality, isn’t it? About exalt themselves will be humbled, humble themselves will be exalted. Hmm…not sure if that’s from Bible or Tao te ching? (Oh! my memory has gone bad. Sometimes I looked at aspirins in my hand and wondered if I already have taken it yet?)

Wait…what is this thread about? Ah! Ok, about “Learning to Give and Receive Love?” Have to say something about it, then. Or it would be off topic. But why did it have a question mark? It’s a question, then.

Hmm…kind of a strange question. Learning to give love? Really? One thing for sure is my landlady never learned that. She always wants her rental fee “in time” every month! What an unlovable woman!
Receive Love? Very interesting question! If only I could learn that… ahem! :-)

But if learning to receive love by trying to win a favor, a flattering? Nay! That’s bad for spirituality, is it not?

This reminds me of that Romantic novel. What did she say? Hmmm…she said something like, “I die without anyone loves me. But I’m proud that I die while I still have someone to love.” A bit hard to understand. Hmm…Is she already dead when she said that?

[tribunalofmercy]

Oh, and one more thing? No matter how self-confident I am, I am glad that at the moment I do not (yet) have to move in and Live with my parents again, 24/7. (*scary test*, haha) (I live about 2 miles away from them) - I know that time may come that they are still here but Completely unable to take care of themselves...

I think people who live with their parents to take care of them are Very brave.

[sparklekaz]

You are so funny Monty. Your post made me smile and laugh out loud. Especially the bit about your landlady wanting her rent. lol And I can so relate to looking at your pills and wondering if you've already taken them!! When that happens to me, I then panic for about 5 mins, and have to check the pack. Then worry I'm getting premature senile dementia. Yes I even looked up the symptoms lol I'm safe I past their test with flying colours.

I think it's because there is too much going on in my head at the same time. I'm guessing mary anne can relate to that I genuinely mean't when I said about always being tested monty. At least that is my experience up to now. Every time I've got complacent and thought I'd finally dealt with an issue or way of reacting. It comes around in another form..usually catching me out. Then I mentally kick myself for doing the same stupied thing again. I've found at least at this point in my life, it is better for me to stay consciously aware as much as possible. Hopefully it will become second nature.

I lived with my mum for four days once mary anne due to house renovations. Was supposed to be for two weeks. As you can see I lasted four days. It got so bad I moved into an old run down caravan with an outside loo, for the rest of the time, to escape lol Seriously though.. I couldn't live with my mum, I lived close enough to see her two or three times a day. She lived at one end of the village, me at the other end. And those last three years I took care of her, I am grateful for. It gave us the opportunity to find peace with each other, put some issues to bed for good. And I'd like to believe that she knew how much I loved her. You realize when someone is coming to the end of their time that life is much to short to hold a grudge, hang on to pain and recrimination. We can't change the past, but we can do things differently. She was my mum.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Mary Anne,
Have you ever heard a story of an accidental hero? :-)
A girl, nay, a mother fell into the water and was drowning. While everyone on the boat startled and could not do anything, a man hurled into the water and saved the woman.
After both of them were back on the ship, the man angrily asked, "Whose foot that shoved me out of the boat?"

Karen,
Hmm...Welcome to the club, then.
Sometimes, dementia might not be the worse case. Just after I had taken that aspirin in my hand, I remembered that I already took it! So, I took them twice! I really should not remember it at all. hahaha.

[tribunalofmercy]

Karen, when I started the thread about the bicycle experience I was thinking of how it seems to me, sometimes (in my humanity) that being put on the bicycle first, is Cheating, you know? Not to make a person work as hard for some things, though I Do understand what ace said about things, and about how we are given what we Need to learn ourselves and our part...

Anyway, last year my guides told me about a man who would be led to come talk to me, one who was a practicing healer, and that I should Listen to him. So when he contacted me a few weeks later (I had seen him around on a site but we had not met before), he said he would like permission to do long-distance emotional clearing/healing on me, and I said okay.

He sent me lots of information ahead of time but nothing (of course) about what would actually Happen in my life as a result; he explained the clearing/healing took anywhere from 3-10 days to show its effects usually. So he said he would do this on a certain day, at a certain time...I knew the "when", but not the "What" was going to happen, see?

Ten minutes after his time to start the process. I had to go over to my parents' house to take Mother somewhere, and when I got there my Eyes had changed; my Heart had changed; Everything had changed. I did not See them as the people who had dominated me for 49 years, with the difficulties we had...I saw them simply as two old people that I cared very much for, my 'parents', who needed me and cared about Me, the best way they knew how. (there were other changes too; the man who sent me the healing was Amazed at how quickly and What had happened, but my guides had known)


Emotional healing, even physical healing, seems to give a jump-start to things and can be a Lasting change, but only if the person continues both to believe it, and to walk in a New way as a result of it. Too often we get 'healed' but Immediately go back to our old ways, and soon the problem begins again.

My new way of seeing my parents became a Benchmark for me, and I have not lost it yet (thankfully) - is it 'cheating', that I was given this opportunity? I don't know that I would have been Able to fully release all the years of defensive walls that had built up between us without help of some sort, but it helped me Believe in the long-distance healing process; I now use it to help Others, when the Right timing presents itself.


I'm glad to know how the end of your Mum's life brought you somewhat closer, to those feelings of love and forgiveness, because from my own long-past experience of losing my brother suddenly, when we had been fighting, was almost Unbearable for me for a long time. No matter what transpires between two people, there is always Hope for the reconciliation until we feel we have lost the person Forever, you know? (though that is not so either)....yes, she is Always "your Mum".


@ Monty - ...yeah, I get it. (And I bet you Know whose foot it was, too ) (Nevertheless, you could have just stayed in the water and drowned, right? or ignored the poor woman)(but you wouldn't)