How Much Do You Love Me?

[tribunalofmercy]

“I want to Know that you love me.”                                                
“Do you love me enough to wait for me?”

“Do you love me enough to go to the hospital with me while I have my surgery?”
“Do you love me enough to share your meal with me?”                  
“Will you stop loving me if I do something Bad?”
“Do you love me enough to Forgive me, no matter What I say or do?"
"Will you love me even when I don’t know if I love You?"  
"Will you love me if I leave you and go follow someone else?"
"Will you love me forever?"
"Do you love me as much as you love the rich people? Do you love me as much as the Poor people? Do you love me as much as you love popes and pastors and holy men? Do you love me as much as you love your Own family?"  

"Would you still love me even if I never did another Good Thing in my Life??"



What is love, to you? Ishtahota asked a good question on another thread (though I have reworded it) – what is unconditional love, anyway? How do we get it? What does it Require? (and how do we know when we Have it?) Is it something we have to Feel? How do we Show it to ourselves and others?


Does ‘unconditional love’ mean I should keep taking my neighbor to her kids’ house day after day every time she asks me for a ride? When does “unconditional love” wander into enabling behavior?
     Does it mean I have to continue to be Nice to someone when they yell at me or hit me every time we are together? When do I get to fight back?


We say love is the goal, that it is the Ultimate “truth”. There are those who teach that denying oneself brings understanding of Truth; others teach we must Embrace All to experience this same Truth. Gruntal recently pointed out that Jehova(h) told his people to go strike (at) others in the Old Testament, but Jesus said to turn the other cheek – all in the name of “God’s love”. So how do we understand this sought-after word – “Love”?


How many different people Are there in this world, anyway? Not to mention the flora and fauna around us….how do we truly experience unconditional love” for each and every one? Is it only about acceptance? Or forgiving, time and again? Is it about taking care of all these?

Or is there something More?
     I covet your thoughts



Mary Anne

[tribunalofmercy]

This is not the Place to be reserved, you know It is a place of Safety, to Think, to discuss, to feel free to speak without fear of judgment or condemnation.

"Will you still love me if I grow old and ugly? Will you love me if I cannot bear children? Will you love me if I am no longer healthy and strong?"

Where does it End? Does Love End?


This is not the place for "pat answers", though it may be fair to respond with what you Hope love truly should be...it is a place for Honesty, for looking within ourselves is Always a good place to start.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Mary Anne,

It's interesting you should write a post about this subject. Because unconditional love is something I have been thinking about a lot recently. In human terms the nearest I see to unconditional love, is that which a parent feels for their child. Especially when they are small. But in general, are we capable of loving other's in this way, without condition and expectation, even if we want to, with all our hearts?

In many ways, it is far easer to feel compassion and love for strangers, then it is for those who are closest to us. I will give freely of my time to those who are need without expecting anything in return. I can feel love and care very much about what happens to those in difficulty, if I know nothing else about them. In my personal relationships, I have given unceasingly, but in the end, I have become disappointed and saddened by the lack of care in return. Is that a selfish thing? Or is there a point when self preservation kicks in and we have to draw back, having given all that we have to give physically and emotionally to the point we have nothing left for ourselves.

One thing I do believe to be true. Is that if we cannot love ourselves unconditionally, there is little chance of loving someone else that way too. If we cannot forgive ourselves when we make mistakes, if we cannot show ourselves understanding and sympathy, or not judge ourselves too harshly. How can we feel all those things towards other people.

For me it is in my family relationships that I've been most hurt. But that is because only family and dear friends evoke in us the most powerful of expectations. My children are a joy, and I can honestly say I love them unconditionally. I would be terribly hurt if they did not love me back. But it is not a condition of me loving them. I would love them regardless. My sisters, I would love and support them no matter what their life choices or how they behaved. But I know they don't feel the same way. That is hurtful.

Buddhism speaks about non attachment through having no expectations. To me it's almost as if to love unconditionally we have to become detached emotionally. I am a very emotional person. I hold my hands up. So I think I'm a long way off from detached unconditional love. Buddhists believe that it is through our emotions that we suffer. Does that mean I wonder, that love isn't an emotion at all. But a state of being. How to then transform emotional love, to simply 'being' love. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

Love and light
Kaz

[tribunalofmercy]

Kaz, I know Exactly what you mean in your response. I'm actually going to quote myself from an earlier post (Perspective, Part II, Oct 6) because this is the Essence of "fractal thinking" - seeing comparisons in things that "seem" unrelated. (I'm hoping, in the long run, that others will see the relevance and start Trying it at home, lol)

_________________________________

"I don’t Believe in bad days, in This way, because I have no Attachments to the outcome of Any daily experience, or situation, where I interact with those I Do Not Know and Love in a Familial Way (….which leads me to my downfalls, the biggest being Myself, lol – I continually desire to be Perfect, failing over and over, and I become my Own worst enemy in that way. But that is Later) HowEver... let it be Family? That’s Another Story, oh yes – I have enough expectations of my Family to fill a Book.

For every Positive, we know there is a Negative – thus the balance of the Universe. The thing Both myself and my family have in common, in this way, is the EXPECTATION.

When someone wrongs us, or wrongs someone we care about, we are quick to feel (or experience), and then provide, the “expected” responses of anger, hurt, etc that may ultimately Keep us on the ‘hamster wheel’ that is Human Thinking.

The Majority of people fall into one of two categories: those who manifest their frustrations on Strangers or others they do not know/care for, and those who manifest frustration on Family and Loved ones (someone please share with me the Name for these two: I Know it’s out there somewhere). I am the type to get frustrated with people Close to me, those I Love as family, because I suddenly Expect them to Act Differently from every other human on the planet. (Why?!)

Why, indeed. Every day, we set ourselves Up for disappointment; we create Expectations that simply Cannot be counted on in an ever-changing life-experience. If we ‘expect’ everyone around us to act in a certain way we are limiting our understanding to This 3D reality only, disregarding free will and, basically, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I know…it Helps to feel some measure of control; to believe the guy in the car in front of you with a blinker on will actually Turn, or the meal you put in the oven will actually be Done at some point, or that when you get to the bank there will actually be Money for you in your account….nobody wants Chaos, but how do we Handle things when our “expectations” are not met? How Attached are we to the expectations we create?"
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So does this mean we truly DO need to release all emotion, in the same way we may desire to release expectation? Is 'expressed' emotion the same thing as Feeling? What does 'love' have to do with emotion, or expectation? ...Am I allowed to ask more questions with each response? lol

[Ishtahota]

I had an event happen a few years back that showed me something about this world that we live in. After a day in nature and meditating before going to sleep I had this sensation in my chest. It felt like a flower opening up out of my chest. It felt like one pedal at a time opening up. When this flower opened up in me I then knew what Love really was or is. I also realized that we ( everyday normal people, even the really good ones ) had not a clue what Love really is. Our existence is basically an exercise in what Love is not. When Jesus said that we needed to open our heart, he was literal, it is a real thing. It also brings with it a strong euphoric feeling. After about 8 seconds my heart closed up again and I became like everyone else in the world.

The main thing that I got to experience was the potential that we as human beings have inside of us. And this was just one of the many different things that we can become. Our consciousness is the next frontier to be explored.

[aceofcups]

Here is my two cents on question:

I think a question about Universal Unconditional Love is filled with Paradox. Especially trying to write about it is even a bigger Paradox. Ultimately Universal Love or Compassion is beyond the limits of words, beyond the limits of our personalities, beyond the limits of emotions and feelings. But the Paradox is that IT contains IT all also.

Some may touch an Essence of it,,,,,,, but then it gets altered by us as evolving humans with evolving ego's, personalities and even as evolving Soul's. Those Being which have Mastered life ( i.e. Christ, Buddha, Krishna,, etc etc) are said to have drank deeper from the well of Universal Unconditional Love and Compassion -- a state of Universal Bliss and Loving Oneness. Universal Love and Compassion is a state of Awakened Consciousness.

We can touch an Essence of it in our relationships with those we love dearly, an Essence with our spiritual Ideals... but an essence is not the Fullness,,just the essence which then gets changed by the limitations of forms of consciousness where the love is manifesting from.

Feeling and emotions (even if they are grand) originate from the Solar plexus chakra of our self to me ....Ultimate Love and Compassion to me comes from the True Heart Center and Soul.


But because few of us will reach true Mastership in this life ,, we all do the best we can to love in our own way and at our own level.. but to me it is good to know the Ultimate goal also.. That to me is Real Reality -even if it far far away from what is called practical reality most of the time.

Just my opinions.

peace,
aceofcups

[tribunalofmercy]

What a beautiful experience that sounds like, Ishtahota - and I hear you about our lives seeming to be an exercise in what love is Not, sometimes :/ Just parts, never the Whole Thing...


Ace, it's good to know that what we experience here Is "not the perfect Bliss" that we Know Unconditional Love must truly be...and your statement "we all do the best we can to love in our own way and at our own level." - sums it up Nicely



...All of which brings me to Another question: If we Know 'what to do' to show Love to others, but we Know that so often we are just 'going through the motions' with it, because we are Not truly 'feeling the love', you know, for all those others, what do you think is the Correct way to handle that knowledge?

So many in my "western world" are letting go of Tradition today - they are embracing "Whatever", no longer constrained to Behave Acceptably if they do not "feel" the urge to do so. They feel that Unconditional Love means freedom to do Anything, because Surely we are loved no matter what!!

How much 'responsibility' does Love entail for you in your personal life? Do we continue to do what we Know and Believe is right, treating others as we would ourselves, hoping and trusting that one day we Will experience that Unconditional Love from the Inside?? Or are we truly 'free' to feel and do Whatever? Do we even consider being Honest and telling others where we Really are with things, how we Really feel inside?


(If you are not on here Responding to these things - which is fine - I do hope you are at least Thinking about them)

[cyberangel]

Dear Mary Anne,

I came here tonight to post something on this very topic, something that was asked and shared in another group I belong to and it triggered me to write a thread for 'The God Light Forum' so I decided rather than posting the thread I thought is appropriate to share here on your thread

Someone asked a question:

"Why not ME? How can some receive spirit and others can't? I have tried everything and read every spiritual book on others experiences, even followed their examples, but nothing? What can I do???"

It's easy for those of us who have had spirit/spiritual encounters to say..."open your mind or your heart"..."relax"...or "it will happen when the time is right for you"...or "your just not ready yet" etc.

My reply:

"You ask fair questions...
Many seekers are looking outward rather than inward. So many see what they 'think' or wish a spiritual experience is through other's experiences rather than looking inside themselves. Each of us are unique...and yet are ONE.

Those who are seeking are so busy watching and listening to others to even 'see' their own gift and EVERYBODY has one...in fact it's the same gift we ALL have. It is a gift so simple yet so powerful but few know how to truly use it.

The gift is 'UNCONDITIONAL LOVE' and it is inside each of us. How many seekers truly know that they are worthy? You won’t find what you’re looking for in others experiences...you must discover and accept your own worth.

Realise and learn to love 'YOURSELF' unconditionally. Go to your inner child...reach out your hand and tell yourself just how special you are...exactly the way you are and except yourself wholly and completely. Share your unconditional love with yourself and allow yourself to feel its power. When you have accepted that pure divine love then you will see WE ARE ALL EXACTLY THE SAME

Yes many see and experience things others can't but few can say that it is a constant in their lives...most get fleeting glimpses or a special spiritual encounter... but most if truly honest don't experience it all the time...they base their life and time and energy sharing what they 'had' rather than focusing on what they 'have'.

Those who realise the true power of unconditional love will never need to seek as they will already know.

Love is the answer...Love is the key...Love is the power to set yourself free"


So my friends, many think unconditional love is about others...but Ishtahota really described it so beautifully and Ishtahota I know what you said because I also have had the same experience you speak of. Love is such a small word for such a huge energy...you see, unconditional love (pure divine love) is so much more than emotion, feelings...even more than a state of being...it is something we become

LOVE and Light xxx