Do you believe in black magic?

[donq]

[Our forum is a bit quiet. Let me talk about something here. :-)]

This post might sound ridiculously but I promise that I will talk only about my personal experiences and will not bother you with so many books I used to read on the subject.

Though I was trained in spiritual practice (like Zen Buddhism) that didn’t believe in any kind of paranormal manifestations because it was not the main goal of our practice. But once in a while I always found some strange things beyond normal until I had to dig it deeper and deeper for my own understanding. I had witnessed strange phenomenon so many time until I come to believe in some kind of them (telepathy, distant healing, mind-reading, premonition, precognition, intuition etc.)
Anyway, to make the long short here, this post will focus only on “back magic” or more specific, evil spell to harm someone. No I never believed in this stuff before until it happened to one of my spiritual teacher (I will skip this part) and myself later.
I got ill without any cause. Doctors told that I was infected with some kind of virus but any medicine they gave me did nothing. The left side of my face was paralyzed and so painful. It lasted like this for weeks, not days. And it happened a few times in my life. Let me skip on the part that I tried to heal myself with holistic/alternative medicine and meditation etc. (and succeeded.) I still didn’t know who wanted to harm me. But there was someone doing that for sure.
What I had learnt from that experiences were:
1. If you never believe in “black magic”, this is great! I will be the BEST protection for you. And don’t try to dig it deeper. But if you happened to cope with any kind of “black magic”, still, you MUST keep your previous believing firmly: do NOT believe in it. Then, it will go away by itself.
2. Everything cannot stand still. That means this strange conditions that happening to you, too. This is not only some kind of optimist view, but a fact. Change will change everything. It always will.
Ok, your turn. Anyone has any personal story about black magic to share?
Thanks.

[baangus]

Hi donq. I believe in magic in the form of a positive attitude and outlook manifesting positive things in one's life. That happens all the time, every day and every minute really. Believing in negative or black magic isn't a stretch. I have worked with miserable people who went around poisoning the work environment and making everyone else miserable, so I know that particular type of magic is also possible.

For me, the question is never about what is or isn't real when it comes to spirituality. The question for me in this particular case is, what would motivate someone to focus their spiritual seeking on various forms of negative prayer? There's an insidious stream of thinking that's become part of the spirituality movement in the last decade or so. The belief is that the negative in the human being is as perfectly okay as the positive. People defiantly defend their ego behavior, their judgment and anger etc., as embracing their dark side.

There are spiritualists who have predicted that society will divide into two distinct groups: those who choose to work with the higher energies, and those who embrace the mundane. Even the Bible predicts it in its own way. I don't wonder if black magic is real. I don't care about it and I don't think about it. There are more relevant spiritual matters to focus on. Not that your thread is irrelevant!

[donq]

Hi b.,
Very good point!

You wrote:

The question for me in this particular case is, what would motivate someone to focus their spiritual seeking on various forms of negative prayer?

Exactly! From my personal experiences, I had found that someone who created that negative energy and harm other people (for the sake of discussion, let’s say that black magic is real for a while) sometimes they unconsciously did that even without their intentions! This is very strange. In case of one of my spiritual teachers, it turned out that one of his disciple unconsciously did it without any intention to harm him. She was a nun. He knew this. I and one of my spiritual friend knew this. But we never really talked about it. But I still observed how my teacher heal himself from it.

Yes, more than agree with you about "There are more relevant spiritual matters to focus on."

[Ishtahota]

No right, no wrong, no good, no evil, these are all just reflections of our split consciousness, and our split brain. All people, places, and things have a certain amount of creative and distructive force or potiential in them. And this being a world of freewill and choice means that all we have to do is learn to be responsible for how we use these forces. We also have to be willing to face the consiquences of our actions.
A tractor is not good or evil, but it does have creative and distructive potiential in it. I can use the distructive potiential of the tractor to plow a field in one dirrection and the crops that feed the people will turn out fine. If I plow in the other dirrection the soil and the crops can wash away and the peoiple will starve. The distructive force of the tractor can be used to do something creative to serve the needs of others.
As far as someone wanting to harm me goes. Ill will is created to go to someone and if I do not except it, it still has to go some where and that is part of the intent that is woven into the energy. If I do not except it, it has no choice but to return to its creator.

[gruntal]

I don't much believe in white magic so I certaintly don't believe in black magic. Well I do see a little and assume there is more beneath the surface. To believe is to make yourself vunerable and I am relatively safe from that.

Then again turtles aren't known to engage in massage therapy ...or theraputic back rubs ect.

[cyberangel]

Hi Monty,



Interesting post and thank you for sharing



I really like Ishtahota’s perception and comment and he gave a wonderful example of how energy can be used by all. I particularly liked this:

Jul 10, 2014 14:11:55 GMT Ishtahota said:

"All people, places, and things have a certain amount of creative and destructive force or potential in them. And this being a world of freewill and choice means that all we have to do is learn to be responsible for how we use these forces. We also have to be willing to face the consequences of our actions."

"As far as someone wanting to harm me goes. Ill will is created to go to someone and if I do not except it, it still has to go some where and that is part of the intent that is woven into the energy. If I do not except it, it has no choice but to return to its creator."

Yes we are all force (without sounding like someone from star wars ). Magick or any belief for that matter has no power of its own, it is merely a thought or concept, and it can only gain power (positive or negative) if we feed into it. A lot of beliefs use ‘Fear’ as a way to control and those who are of a more impressionable or vulnerable are more at risk of influence over them.



Don’t get me wrong, I do believe there is a neutral force (neither dark or light) out there and this force can be ‘utilised’ by anyone, but that is as far as it goes...that is until another joins force and takes on the same idea or notion, then that ‘force’ gains its power and momentum.



I will give another example of force...I was travelling with someone who is quite a negative person (due to negative events no doubt),and I find myself often biting my tongue or lip, and praying a great deal on our journey for strength. Everything that comes out of this person’s mouth is mostly negative and can and does have an effect on me and my mood. I find myself struggling to remain in ‘control’ at times and not to react to the energy being released from this person.



I often come home tired and weary and like I have battled physically with someone, but I disperse of the energy once I am home in my own surroundings. But how much worse would I feel if I gave into the negative energy? I am sure it would certainly have a detrimental effect on my health and my mind and I would surely be open to blaming ‘them’ for MY reactions, but I try to remain in control of my own energy and not allow others to ‘feed’ me theirs!



Overall, I believe no one can put a curse or spell on anyone without ones permission, and I am also a firm believer in whoever ‘points’ their finger must also remember that there are 3 pointing back at themselves...what we put out will no doubt return



Love and Light (and may the force be with you )

[baangus]

Jul 10, 2014 12:59:35 GMT donq said:

Yes, more than agree with you about "There are more relevant spiritual matters to focus on."

Hi donq. I don't know if I'm allowed to respond, this is the question and answer thread...? Regardless, I think all discussion is good in that it can shine the light of truth on a topic. So in that regard, talking about all this is perfectly relevant. But the bottom-line is many people choose the darkness, live in their own self-created misery, and choose the path of negative prayer. It's a kind of malignant soul-spirit disease of modern human life, a reality that is mirrored in the way cancer has become a modern epidemic. As above, so below; as in the soul, so in the body. Nietzsche identified the negative prayer path and it destroyed him; Hitler manifested it for all the world to see.

[donq]

Hi b.,
Sorry, there was a blackout here for many hours. I've just can use my internet.
It's ok. Let's talk.

[donq]

I wrote this during the blackout here. 

Hi everyone,

I was going to leave this thread as all of you have already complete it. I'm speechless. Still, I want to say thanks to everyone and tell some jokes here.

1. What do farmers use to make crop circles?
Protractor

2. What do turtles use to communicate?
shellphone!

3. How is Ducktape like the Force?
It has a Dark Side, a Light side and it binds the galaxy together.

P.S. To Lorriane:
Hmm...I've just got it now. Why do some angry persons trying to avoid pointing their three fingers  to themselves by pointing only one finger to the sky instead. This way, their three fingers would point to the ground. Yes, they use the middle finger, not index one. hahaha.

[donq]

b,
I wrote the above during the blackout. 
Please continue.

[donq]

Hi again b.,

I understand your questions. I know the good conversation is the food for our souls. My point is that sometimes it's better to leave something there without going to its utmost or misunderstanding might come. 

Ok, back to our points. And from now on, I will speak something that is still left in my mind.

Someone said that there's no such thing as the dark beam/emisson of the moon (metaphorically not scientifically.) I think there's something missing there. The same as someone said placebo effect ("I shall please") is not real. Neither is nocebo effect ("I shall harm) But why is it till real for someone. Not in the subjective sense but objective one. The pill with bright color "seems" to be more powerful than the dull ones (hence color therapy.) People with hypochondria (health phobia or health anxiety) "really" get sick than they should be. This is why nocebo effect is real, at least for them.
On one hand, it seems all bad things are not real, just our misunderstandings about the dark beam/emisson of the moon. On the other hand, we do believe in the light beam/emssion of the moon. Are we missing something there?
I believe there are many...(how to say it?)...order?...to look at the very same thing. On the first order, all bad things are real. One the second order, they are not. For example, the table is real hard wood. One the second order looking, they are just atoms and emptiness etc.

[baangus]

Jul 10, 2014 10:43:52 GMT donq said:

Though I was trained in spiritual practice (like Zen Buddhism) that didn’t believe in any kind of paranormal manifestations because it was not the main goal of our practice. But once in a while I always found some strange things beyond normal until I had to dig it deeper and deeper for my own understanding. I had witnessed strange phenomenon so many time until I come to believe in some kind of them (telepathy, distant healing, mind-reading, premonition, precognition, intuition etc.)
Anyway, to make the long short here, this post will focus only on “back magic” or more specific, evil spell to harm someone.

donq, in one very real way, there is little difference between inner meditative experiences of spirit cognition, versus outer "paranormal" or metaphysical manifestations. In the western world at least, church teachings are largely responsible for mainstream society's ignorance in this regard. People are taught that the miracles of Jesus were god-sent, whereas occult and metaphysical reality is the devil's work. People have been been scared straight into traveling the straight and narrow path of right and proper conceptualizing. Convenient as far as mind control goes, but not a lot to do with actual spiritual truth.

On the other hand, the reason an inner, self-realization path such as Buddhism ignores paranormal topics is because those topics are, for the most part, redundant and irrelevant to modern spiritual self-development. The modern path to spirit is an inner soul path. Humanity's path now is to develop the soul-self via meditation and conscious self-development, including moral development. Paranormal gifts on the other hand are from the past. Eons ago, when humanity first began to incarnate on this physical plane, the human soul had a natural, direct connection with spirit. As time went by and as the physical senses took over, humanity lost this natural spirit connection. In the same way that interest in spirituality is exploding globally, there is now an increase in paranormal phenomena signalling the return of this instinctive (re)connection with spirit. But paranormal magic is no longer our path. A comparable metaphor would be an adult climbing up to the attic and discovering a dusty old trunk full of toys they played with as a child. Beautiful and sweet, but the time for playing with those toys is long past.

The new path, the new magic, the new alchemy of inner soul transformation via god-realization.
Versus the old path of psychic manipulation of spirit and matter, or externalized magic one might call it.

This is the true message of master Jesus (and others). On the other hand and in its twisted away, the church teaching on this subject is perfectly correct. From a healthy spiritual development perspective, we are now required to open ourselves up to god-revelation. That's the straight and narrow path to self-realization. Dabbling in external spiritual phenomena - exploring the paranormal for the most part, and especially black magic - are ego-directed activities that lead the individual away from the inner, moral self-realization path.

[baangus]

Jul 11, 2014 13:02:14 GMT donq said:

On one hand, it seems all bad things are not real, just our misunderstandings about the dark beam/emisson of the moon. On the other hand, we do believe in the light beam/emssion of the moon. Are we missing something there?
I believe there are many...(how to say it?)...order?...to look at the very same thing. On the first order, all bad things are real. One the second order, they are not. For example, the table is real hard wood. One the second order looking, they are just atoms and emptiness etc.

Similar (but different) to what Ishtahota wrote, one needs to examine the reality behind the notion of good versus bad. Good is that which leads to god-realization. Bad is that which leads to ego. And not bad as in hellfire-and-brimstone bad, this isn't church. Bad as in leads the soul away from communion with spirit. Black magic is bad because it's an ego-directed activity, simple as that.  

[donq]

Hi b.,

Agree. Well posts of yours. Thanks.

Anyway, I have to stress here that, on the second order speaking, I don’t believe in black magic. If I talked about back magic above, I only meant about the first order speaking.
Let me put it in this way, on the first order, black magic is (seems to be) real (to someone, not me now), like the dark beam of the moon.
One the second orders, black magic is NOT real. The moon could only emit the light beam.
On the third order, even moonlight is Not real (scientifically speaking.) Its light is from somewhere else, not from itself.
Then, are there the fourth order…etc.? That’s my question.

[donq]

my internet traffic is so bad. Will be back to our forum tomorrow.

[alvinw333]

I believe that black magic is real, but if one was in it, her or she would experance bad karma, acadents, pain, being drowen in to more negitivity in the long run, pumping the ego up more over others, and so on, what a life to live, not me, and plus there turning there face or back from God