I'm confused about this

[David Byrne]

I suffer from anxiety and depression which I take medicine , 150mg sertraline. When ever I feel anxious I pray to god it's like a call for help to lift me out of despair and I don't know what happens but it always works leaving me feeling good , really good. This is where it gets confusing , i'm not even religious. I don't believe in God or the whole religious system so I have no idea why it works but i'm just glad it does , it's better then feeling anxious. I have had trouble in the past with religion constantly debating whether I believe or not I came to the conclusion that it is all crap , all of it. Can anyone give tips and advice why it works ? Surely it just can't be placebo.

[baangus]

Hi iamhe. Several members responded to you in your other thread, I suggest you start there.

[Ishtahota]

When I work with people who are awakening or with people that spirit wants for some reason we go threw what the Mystics call Dark Days of the Soul. The ego or the animal part of us wants to remain in control of our lives and it's tools to do this are Fear, Panic, and Anxiaty. For us it is one of the sure fire signs that we are doing something right in our life. Everyone that I work with goes threw this. For some people it can last a little while and for others it can last years. The doctors drugs for the most part only post pone what we have to go threw.
Religion and Spirituality have nothing to do with each other.

[cyberangel]

Hi Iamhe and Welcome back

I think I can understand your confusion.

Depression and anxiety can be really debilitating conditions and when we feel we are no longer in ‘control’ we will turn to anyone and anything we feel can help, so it is natural you turn to ‘God’, because deep down you ‘naturally’ know how to access the part of you that can heal yourself.

Now to the confusion, you say yourself that

“Whenever I feel anxious I pray to god it's like a call for help to lift me out of despair and I don't know what happens but it always works leaving me feeling good, really good” 

Yet in the next sentence you say

“...I'm not even religious. I don't believe in God or the whole religious system so I have no idea why it works but I’m just glad it does, it's better than feeling anxious.”

And now to the cause of the confusion (although in my eyes I don’t see this as confusion but more a conflict within you)

“I have had trouble in the past with religion constantly debating whether I believe or not I came to the conclusion that it is all crap, all of it.”

What was the trouble you found with religion? Why is it so hard to believe in a greater power? I think you already see and even better feel the effects of there being something more, but how did you come to the conclusion that “it is all crap, all of it”?

I'm not asking you to answer these for me but these are all questions you can ask and find the solutions yourself, in my view.


I agree with Ishtahota that

“...part of us wants to remain in control of our lives”

And you clearly don’t feel in control to suffer as you do, so you need to address why you don’t have control? Or you feel you have no control/choice? And this I feel has aided your confusion.



In relation to

“.... Religion and Spirituality have nothing to do with each other.” 

Hmmmmm....I only partly agree with Ishtahota’s comment, because I think there are many religious people out there who are very spiritual, but are afraid to leave or explore beyond the conditionings of their faith. And there are spiritual people also that can see past the religious doctrines and laws and see the ‘heart essence’ of religious life. I do believe it is possible to balance the two but to beware that this can lead to more confusion and bewilderment, so many choose one or the other, and think that the two cannot be mixed, but in my opinion, I feel they can.

Anyway, I have offered just another way of looking at your confusion and I hope I have not hindered you even more, but I just offered an outsiders view, nothing more. It is also not up to me or anyone to show you what you should or should not believe, as you will have to seek and discover your own truth, like us all

I am sure many of us here have had similar confusions and trials on our journeys also, so you are not alone my friend. At least you have a safe place here to open up and share your experiences. Take care

Love and Light

[David Byrne]

I don't know if it's all crap but the evidence and research I've done tells me so , even that could be wrong. Look around you , all you'll see is murder , paedophilia , crooked governments and I think that's enough to tell you that if there ever was a God or a jesus surely they wouldn't let this be , or would they ? There is a lot of pain in the world today , yes much of it caused by humans , I know we have free will but surely this higher power would stop these appalling crimes ? The funny thing is some of these crimes are committed by the church ! I've never read the bible in full but I have seen bits of it quoted here or there from what I make of it God is the evil one not satan , like we are taught to believe.

[cyberangel]

Hi again Iamhe,

By reading your reply...I can clearly see a lot of anger. I am not judging you as usually anger stems from some sort of pain, whatever the case maybe that is your business. As I said earlier, you and you alone must seek out the answers to find your own truth, no one can tell you what to believe or convince you otherwise, all we can do here is treat each other with a mutual respect and courtesy, along with a listening ear, an open heart and compassion.

By sharing as we do on this forum we show there are many ways to explore and develop, not just one way. Not one person here has all the answers either many are sharing their experiences, or seeking out new ways to explore. The only advice I would say is be very careful rushing in with rash words or choices, especially when spoken out of anger or pain. While I’m sure many will understand where you are coming from, few will approach someone who is likely to lash out, verbally.

Yes, I agree a lot of damage was done by religious institutions but a lot of damage is done by non religious people also. Do we label certain people the same because of a select few? I do not wish to trivialize the damage either because many many innocents were seriously hurt, but again why blame all religious or something else because of what humans do? By blaming GOD, Satan or anything else, we take away the blame from ourselves and our behaviours and our choices. It is far easier to point and blame than to look at our own flaws.

I wish you well Iamhe and I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

Take Care

[sparklekaz]

Hi iamhe,

If I were you, I'd focus on your own experiences rather than dwelling so much on all the negativity in the world. I'm not surprised you feel so anxious and stressed. Yes, horrible things do happen. But there are also many wonderful things going on around us too. You said, " When ever I feel anxious I pray to god it's like a call for help to lift me out of despair and I don't know what happens but it always works leaving me feeling good , really good". Why do you have to analyse this. Why not just accept it and be grateful, that something helps.

I get so tired of hearing people going on about the paedophile priests and scandals about the church. When there are hundreds of thousands of priests, vicars, monks, nuns, working selflessly every day to help other people. For all the killers out there, there are millions of decent hard working people who would never harm anyone. And 90 odd percent of people who go to church do so to fulfill their own inner yearnings for a spiritual life and wouldn't dream of trying to foist their beliefs on anyone else.

I am not a religious person, not because I have anything against religion, but because I do not follow one. I am open to all belief paths, and find so much love and inspirational words in many of them. I focus on my own relationship with God. I don't feel that we have to go to church to have that. But I know that for other people it is an important part of their life and worship. I respect that but don't feel the need to share it.

I really believe that what we think, influences what we see around us. If all you can do is focus on the dark side of life then that is all you will see. I know many people who would consider themselves truly blessed to have received such direct affirmation of the presence of God's love in their life as you did. Why not just enjoy that feeling of being protected and cared for and stop worrying so much about whether it's real or not. It's clearly real to you, else you wouldn't have felt it, would you!

Love and light
Kaz

[David Byrne]

Yes , I am angry. I'm angry because one day I believe that maybe there is a God and the next I feel there isn't a God it's a constant battle. It never goes away. I've read tons of books to try make me an atheist but there is always a part of me that thinks there is a God because I think God is love , no idea why. Then there's a part of me that thinks if I read the bible take it to be truth then how stupid am I because then I've become deluded with the idea that because I believe it it's true , I hope that makes sense. Just because you believe something it doesn't make it truer

[sparklekaz]

Don't read other people's words. Focus on what YOU feel, in your heart. Trust that!

[David Byrne]

That's my problem I never know how I feel lol

[sparklekaz]

[donq]

Hi iamhe,

“I suffer from anxiety and depression which I take medicine, 150 mg sertraline.”
-Who defines what anxiety and depression are? Doctor, right? Then, you take your sertraline because you believe in your doctor.

“When ever I feel anxious I pray to god it's like a call for help to lift me out of despair and I don't know what happens but it always works leaving me feeling good, really good.”
-Who defines when you will feel good? You yourself, right? And who defines what god is? Again, you yourself, right?

“This is where it gets confusing,”
-Again, who defines getting confusing? :-)

“i'm not even religious. I don't believe in God or the whole religious system so I have no idea why it works but i'm just glad it does, it's better then feeling anxious.”
-Here you are! Yes, anything is better than pain (in any kinds.) As for my personal experience (I have been suffered from chronic pain for more than 27 years after my deadly operation), I stopped asking these kinds of question for many years ago. We don’t have that luxury time to waste. If any medicine helps us, then take it as quickly as we could. If any mental/psychological strategy (god etc.) helps us, again, take it. We don’t need a solid prove. At least not yet. Not until we feel so well enough from our urgent pain. Why? Because we have to avoid our inner vicious circle like this: I think that you think that I think that you think….etc.  

 “I have had trouble in the past with religion constantly debating whether I believe or not I came to the conclusion that it is all crap, all of it.
-I do understand what you tried to say and am more than agree. Any debating goes nowhere, especially on religion debating. Worse than that, one even will believe more about what he/she used to believe after they debated those who didn’t believe in it. lol

“Can anyone give tips and advice why it works ? Surely it just can't be placebo.”
-Again, here you know what I’m going to say about placebo. :-)

I don't know if it's all crap but the evidence and research I've done tells me so , even that could be wrong. Look around you , all you'll see is murder , paedophilia , crooked governments and I think that's enough to tell you that if there ever was a God or a jesus surely they wouldn't let this be, or would they ? There is a lot of pain in the world today , yes much of it caused by humans , I know we have free will but surely this higher power would stop these appalling crimes? The funny thing is some of these crimes are committed by the church! I've never read the bible in full but I have seen bits of it quoted here or there from what I make of it God is the evil one not satan , like we are taught to believe.
-I agree with you. I feel the same (with my religion.) But this reminds me of something I read many years ago. We always think that the past was better than present. But, really? In the past, so many people had to suffer and died because of so many deadly diseases. Plague, flu, to name but a few. (1918 Spanish Flu pandemic killing an estimated 50 million to 100 million people around the world!) Not to mention about so many death/ disabled born babies because of  insanitary environment.
Yes, today we can deal better with those old deadly diseases even we also have new deadly ones (AIDS etc.) it’s still considered that we can deal with it a lot better than the past.     
But as Arnold Toynbee used to say we may have more knowledge but it doesn’t mean more understanding. Both about psychology and spirituality of human being. Once I watched the video of World psychiatry conference, all psychiatrists honestly admitted that they never could really cure any patients!
Does the world become worse, then? Maybe I feel that way. And that’s the very reason why we must have more and more spirituality to help healing this world, right? What will happen if there’s no such thing as any god/religion today? Chaos!
One venerable old monk taught me that though those temples/icons are not the true meaning of Buddhism, but at least they will last very very long so that people can still remember about Buddhism even when its real teaching may be gone. Bark is also important for keeping its core safe. We should not look at the bark, but only at the core, right?    

“Yes , I am angry. I'm angry because one day I believe that maybe there is a God and the next I feel there isn't a God it's a constant battle. It never goes away. I've read tons of books to try make me an atheist but there is always a part of me that thinks there is a God because I think God is love , no idea why. Then there's a part of me that thinks if I read the bible take it to be truth then how stupid am I because then I've become deluded with the idea that because I believe it it's true , I hope that makes sense. Just because you believe something it doesn't make it truer”
-I think you are in the crisis of reading. Reading cannot bring us to anywhere. No matter how much you read about a beautiful sea, you will never really “experience” it. Stop reading and go to experience the sea by yourself instead. Then, and only then you can tell yourself if the sea you used to read about it is a fake or not.   

[baangus]

Apr 23, 2014 18:51:02 GMT David Byrne said:

There is a lot of pain in the world today , yes much of it caused by humans , I know we have free will but surely this higher power would stop these appalling crimes ? The funny thing is some of these crimes are committed by the church !

Crimes are not committed by the church. Crimes are committed by individual human beings, whether they're priests, politicians, or just angry people looking to take their anger out on someone else. That's the first thing you need to do: stop generalizing. You're only adding to the confusion and noise of the world when you do that. Don't be part of the problem. Don't be a surface thinker, looking for things to blame. Look deeper than that. Look inside yourself and focus on what you do, and on what you don't do but should. Be part of the solution.

The other thing I have to say is this: Unless you are bipolar or have some other serious need for prescription medication, get off the pills. I took medication for depression for 2-3 months, then decided to go the holistic healing route. Prescription medication dulls your senses and gives you an excuse not to deal with the core issues that lead to your illness. There is no real justification for being angry at the world, or for seeing the world as an ugly, unloving place. It could be you are seeing the world in that light due to the effects of the medication. Or the reality may be that cultivating a gloomy life outlook over a period of many years is one of the reasons you ended up depressed and on medication in the first place.

Either way, get off the pills and start exploring holistic healing avenues. You'll then have a real chance to actually get better, plus your general life outlook could and quite probably will improve significantly. You've experienced this already. You're able to WILL yourself out of your despair and into a place of feeling good. You yourself have the power to do that, you don't need pills. That's what holistic healing will help you with and will teach you.

[cyberangel]

Baangus said:

“Crimes are not committed by the church. Crimes are committed by individual human beings, whether they're priests, politicians, or just angry people looking to take their anger out on someone else. That's the first thing you need to do: stop generalizing. You're only adding to the confusion and noise of the world when you do that. Don't be part of the problem. Don't be a surface thinker, looking for things to blame. Look deeper than that. Look inside yourself and focus on what you do, and on what you don't do but should. Be part of the solution.”

Hi Baangus, I could not agree more with you on this statement

Now in relation to medication and your advice about stopping it. I would be extremely cautious about advising anyone to suddenly stop or even to consider stopping taking medication without them first consulting their own doctor. None of us know iamhe’s history and are not medically qualified to give such advice. While I do agree that ‘some’ doctor’s are very quick to push pills onto patients, I do think that once medication has begun, no one other than a professional should tell a person so stop taking their meds.

There are many forms of depression, depression arising from circumstances to depression from chemical imbalances to name only two. Both are extremely different in diagnosis and treatment. While I also agree with the holistic approach, I would seriously recommend anyone, who is currently on medication (for whatever), to speak with their doctor first about safely stopping their medication, if that is what they decide, and also seek out a reputable holistic therapist/centre and see what they offer.

While I can also relate to the ‘dullness’ or in my case ‘numbness’ of taking anti-depressants (I was prescribed them also for 2-3 months years ago and I also decided to come off them, but I spoke with my doctor first and came off them gradually and responsibly and was monitored in relation to side effects of stopping them slowly) I was also warned of the seriousness and complications of suddenly stopping them, and that was only after a short period of time on them! I understand someone who may be on medications for a longer period it could be very serious if not dangerous to suddenly stop, so I would strongly urge anyone taking medication and thinking of stopping, to please speak to their own doctor first.

It is irresponsible (holistic or otherwise) for anyone other than a professional to suggest that someone ‘does not need pills’. AGAIN please seek professional advice before stopping any medications and certainly explore the holistic avenue also.

I don't think you (Baangus) was suggesting that iamhe should suddenly stop the medication but I think it is extremely important to clarify and point out the dangers of suddenly stopping medication, especially if the doctor is also not aware.  It would be different if Iamhe was not already on medication, then one could recommend the holistic approach without fear of complications, but I felt a strong concern when no mention of a doctor and suggesting someone does not need pills, was mentioned in your post.  

[donq]

Hi angel,

Ah....no one likes cold turkey
....and cold duck?

[David Byrne]

Depression runs in my family and I mean serious depression so there is no way I'd be stopping the medication , not for anybody. When I first started taking these pills I was a wreck in such a dark place but now I'm like my old self it's like I've been given a second chance.

[baangus]

Apr 24, 2014 23:06:33 GMT cyberangel said:

Now in relation to medication and your advice about stopping it. I would be extremely cautious about advising anyone to suddenly stop or even to consider stopping taking medication without them first consulting their own doctor. None of us know iamhe’s history and are not medically qualified to give such advice.

Hi cyberangel. Which is why I said unless iamhe is suffering from bipolar or other serious issues. iamhe obviously knows what's best for him and I didn't think I needed to add a disclaimer.

Depression is about as common today as the flu, and doctors prescribe depression medication like they do pain pills. Anti-depressant medication is over-prescribed x10, and is not the answer except under the most extreme medical circumstances. For most people, taking anti-depressants is the best way to ensure they never have to actually deal with the core issues that lead to the depression in the first place. That's the difference between the pharmaceutical route versus holistic healing, and that's what I was pointing out.

[baangus]

Apr 25, 2014 7:40:46 GMT David Byrne said:

there is no way I'd be stopping the medication , not for anybody.

Hi iamhe. Nobody can make you do anything. Nobody can make you feel bad, for instance. If someone does something and it offends you in some way, they didn't offend you. You're choosing to be offended. Likewise, it's not the world's responsibility to stop being appalling. It's not the church's responsibility to stop being crime-ridden. The world and the church don't do any of that. Rather, you choose to see the world and the church in that way.

That was in fact the deeper message I was communicating as I'm not naive to the point of thinking some stranger on the internet is suddenly going to stop taking their meds just because I typed "enough with the pills." You say you're no longer in a dark place due to taking anti-depression medication. Yet you've repeatedly mentioned how everything is crap, whether it's God, religion, the church, governments or our society. There's a mixed message in there to say the least. You say you're now back to your old self due to the meds. Okay, then I'd suggest it's your agitated life outlook that is causing your anxiety.

And I'm saying your life outlook is undoubtedly one of the reasons you ended up depressed and on medication in the first place. Depression runs in my family as well and probably most other families these days. That's just a fact of modern life, it's not an explanation as to why one would continue to struggle with anxiety issues. People struggle because they're processing meaningful "dark night of the soul" experiences. And one of the soul experiences you no doubt need to examine and deal with is your general life outlook... with or without the meds, that's of secondary importance here.  

[David Byrne]

It's not the churches fault it's crime ridden but mine because the way I choose to look at it ? Really ? Wow that's a first ! Should I go to church and express my guilt for doing so ?

[baangus]

Apr 25, 2014 11:08:38 GMT David Byrne said:

It's not the churches fault it's crime ridden but mine because the way I choose to look at it ? Really ? Wow that's a first ! Should I go to church and express my guilt for doing so ?

Really? Wow, and sarcasm...

So that's your response? I have to say I kind of got that sense from your previous comments. Someone who calls something crap - and especially religion, and especially on a spiritual forum where religious people hang out - hasn't, in my opinion, spent a lot of time looking within. I'll say this one more time and then I'll leave it at that. Your depression and anxiety is no doubt linked to your cynical attitude and life outlook. Change your attitude and life outlook, and you'll no longer be anxious and quite probably won't need anti-depressants.

One more thing: Two of us clearly explained why the church is not crime-ridden. I also explained whose fault it actually is that the church would be seen in that light. If you're going to go to all the trouble of starting a thread asking for answers, then read and give proper thought to peoples' comments before replying.

[cyberangel]

Hi Baangus,

I think its valid to point out that it is not all people in their 50s and 60s, with vast life experiences, that read and post on this forum, there are many age groups that come here, for lots of different reasons.

You said:

“iamhe obviously knows what's best for him and I didn't think I needed to add a disclaimer”

No one suggested that you need to put a disclaimer for Iamhe either, as I agree that iamhe is probably well able to use their own discernment in relating to their medication, but for those (who may also read this thread and posts in the future) they may be naive, susceptible or easily influenced, one should always permit caution.

I also think it’s very important to show that for the many that don’t agree with the use of medication for depression, there are many out there who do. Everyone is different and have different opinions, which is healthy. But to place everyone in the same boat just because one has had a bad or unpleasant experience, in my opinion, is unhealthy, and certainly does not make them an expert. Don’t misconstrue what I am trying to say either, I am not advocating the use of prescription drugs, just merely trying to strike a balance, life is not all black and white, there are grey areas, as with everything!

[David Byrne]

Spirituality and religion have nothing in common my friend please don't get the two mixed up. The church is just trying to adopt the whole spiritual idea for it to make money , I've seen the new bible covers , sad thing is you or I can't change the horrible stories within the bible. I think my outlook on life is pretty good because I see things from negative as well as positive

[sparklekaz]

I can see where both Baangus and cyberangel are coming from and agree with both their points of view. Both of them are sharing their thoughts with you iamhe, for YOUR benefit. Responding to your plea for advice and guidance. We are very lucky here on this forum, that we have the benefit of a diverse group of people whom are happy and willing to share their accumulated life experiences, knowledge and wisdom with us. So please, even if you do not agree with something they have said, at least appreciate the spirit in which that information is given to you, and keep your responses on a respectful level.

I am assuming that the reason you wanted feedback to your question, was because you had reached a point, where you felt hearing the opinions of others on this matter would be helpful to you. Often the words of others can strike a chord, and help us to look out our life and problems from a different perspective. It is my experience, that sometimes the things that we hear that cause us the most discomfort or to become defensive, are the ones that have touched on a nerve and maybe got to the heart of the matter. If you want things to change, you have to change. If you are unwilling to do that, life will continue on as it always has and you will continue to feel unhappy and full of inner conflict.

You have said in your last reply, that "I think my outlook on life is pretty good because I see things from negative as well as positive". I have to say so far I have not seen any evidence of a healthy, positive outlook on life. Quite the contrary. Just something for you to consider.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi iamhe,

“It's not the churches fault it's crime ridden but mine because the way I choose to look at it? Really? Wow that's a first ! Should I go to church and express my guilt for doing so?”
-I laughed when I read this sarcasm of yours. Nice one. :-)
But frankly speak, why do you think all of our friends here don’t know about the crime of religion? We do know. And that’s why no one here (as far as I know) chose to be a monk, nun, pastor, priest etc. We have nothing to do with any church/temple at all.
I had been “into” Buddhism for more than 30 years. I used to be a monk. Went to study here and there, from many places/temples. If I want to complain about the crime of many fake Buddhists/temples did (everything for money), I assure you that I can post more than 10 posts per day for years!
But what is the point of condemnation the darkness? Shouldn’t we light a candle instead?

P.S. I just watched “Noah” I think Darren Aronofsky, director/writer tried to do what you tried to do here. And this was a feedback from someone who might not get his main message:

“This was one of THE worst movies I have ever seen. I am upset I actually paid to see this. It is one thing to make a movie about your take on a biblical story but it is a completely different thing to change the facts and morph it into a psychotic, overly dramatic, sci-fi. On top of that, the special effects were not even sub par. Horrible effects. Having Noah turn into a sadistic child killer was unexpected and uncalled for. I am a Russell Crow fan and this was just horrible and should have never been made. I had a hard time sitting through the movie and wanted to leave several times but stayed to the end in hopes that something would get better, it did not. I wish I could get my money back and those 2 hours. I would not recommend anyone go see this movie.”

As for me, the message in the movie was so powerful. Will we serve God by killing a just born child? Will we save all animals but let all of human being die in flood?   

[David Byrne]

I don't understand so because I don't have the same views as you in life I'm negative ? I didn't mean to come across as rude but i'm kind of lost in life right now , ain't we all , I feel like I need to follow something and i'm sure it's Christianity. I went to my local christian book store today and I felt so peaceful like everything made sense. I was thinking of getting a study bible maybe that will help

[cyberangel]

Hi Iamhe

I understand that you feel lost and are very conflicted about what you actually want. In fact I don’t think I have ever seen anybody fight themselves so much over trying to find a connection or meaning. I can see that you are angry/hurting about something, and that you want a connection but something is seriously holding you back...YOURSELF. What I would say is you are making progress even though you may think you are not, because you keep coming back and STILL want to find that connection.

But, you will never fully know that connection if you cannot connect with yourself. If I may suggest, and it is only a suggestion, if you feel that Christianity is something you would like to explore, I would hold off buying books and go see a minister within one of the Christian churches, explain that you feel this conflict within yourself, and as much as possible be honest, not only with them but especially yourself. Try and go with an open mind, and don’t focus on just the negative side, even though we all know there will always be negativity in life that should not be the main focus on anything, or the main reason/excuse not to make a decision in life.

We are not here to convince you either way about anything. You and you alone can only make that decision about your life, all we can do (and have done) is share with you ways of exploring different means of finding your own path. Nothing you have said here has insulted me personally, but I have to agree with the others here, you must be careful when sharing or replying that you don’t come off as seeing only the negative in life, or making facetious replies. There are lots of good well meaning folks here, who take time to share with you and offer advice and do genuinely care.

I wish you well

[donq]

Hi iamhe,
No, no, you can choose to have any view in your life as long
as it doesn’t harm yourself.

What our friends here tried to do is to help you, not to
convince you to love the churches. (urh…sorry for my sarcasm. lol)

Because you started this thread by telling us about your
condition/medication, so we do care and think that the best way (for you now)
is you have to try to change your view first. If, and only if you can handle
with your view better, your health (both physical and psychological) will be
better, and you can choose to keep any view. I believe I even more negative
than you are. hahaha.  

If you feel home with Christian bookstore, then go there,
why not? I (used to) love to hang out in bookstores, too. I always lost my time
in there. Sometimes, 10 hours passed without noticing it.     

[tiziana]

I think that the confusion and despair are the pricks that help us to find ourselves. We want unity but within us move several drives, and this causes great suffering. It is therefore necessary to know who we are, is the first step, and is so large as to require perhaps the whole life.I have tried to do with psychoanalysis, but it has great limitations, and after seven years I decided to quit. It helped me, but it was not enough. I could not find comfort even in religions, especially in the more "important". I have read the Masters Indians, Tibetans ... also they have helped me, but not enough.Finally I found Gnosis, by Samael Aun Weor, and I finally found my way. It was tough, because it's no consolation but urges people to make a revolution within himself.I can tell you that it's worth it, you can find her books on the net too. And sorry for my english, but I am italian and this is the first time I use this language to write something complicated!

[sparklekaz]

Hi Tiziana,

Welcome to the forum

I believe self analysis is very helpful..up to a point, as you have discovered. Though I do think it is an ongoing process. Because as we grow and expand, we are constantly filtering our experiences, re-assessing our beliefs and opinions, as we are influenced by what happens to us. The main problem for me with self analysis, is not getting 'stuck' in that mode, to the point where I felt I was starting to over-analyse everything. So knowing when to let go of things and just 'be' is a must.

I also agree with you, that confusion and despair are often the things that propel us forward and jolt us out of our comfort zones. It's a cliche I know, but I do believe that it is in our darkest moments, that we seem to grow the most. Not saying it is the only motivation for growth, just that it is a powerful one. I had not heard of Samael Weor, so will check him out. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Love and light
Kaz