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Post by jonor on Dec 18, 2013 16:33:33 GMT
If I understand some teachings of enlightenment correctly, one of the purposes of enlightenment is to get rid of the veil. The veil is here meant the "forgetfulness of ones Higher Spiritual Self and/or reincarnations". But why place the veil there in the first place?  |
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Post by qbmonk on Dec 20, 2013 16:09:42 GMT
If you think of it in the terms of a driving test, when you take your test if you fail you are given a form with the things you failed on. So
say if you did not complete your turning in the road using forward and reverse gears it would be marked. But when you once again take your new test you do not only retake the part you failed you retake the whole test. The same with reincarnation, if you had a list of things you
had to do to move to the next level. With the knowledge of where you went wrong you would not act in a natural way. So the vail is there I believe to allow you to live your new life without a crib sheet to work from, if that makes sence. I hope that it does love and light to you
Monk
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Ishtahota
The one question that anwsers all other questions. Who am I?
Posts: 184
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Post by Ishtahota on Dec 21, 2013 4:43:41 GMT
I have crossed that veil a few times in my life. It did cause forgetfulness in me, but the veil itself was made up of my fears. And the fear that experienced the first time I crossed was mortal fear, fear that I had created all by myself. Once I crossed and saw it for what it was I laughed about it and I also got the sence that God was laughing with me. What I found on the other side of that veil was heightened state of awareness way beyond my wildest dreamers. Enlightenment is on the other side of this veil, but living in this world and staying in that state of awareness is realy hard.
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Post by jonor on Dec 21, 2013 18:25:26 GMT
I have crossed that veil a few times in my life. It did cause forgetfulness in me, but the veil itself was made up of my fears. And the fear that experienced the first time I crossed was mortal fear, fear that I had created all by myself. Once I crossed and saw it for what it was I laughed about it and I also got the sence that God was laughing with me. What I found on the other side of that veil was heightened state of awareness way beyond my wildest dreamers. Enlightenment is on the other side of this veil, but living in this world and staying in that state of awareness is realy hard. Perhaps it gets easier and easier staying in this state as people wake up? |
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Post by aceofcups on Dec 25, 2013 1:57:22 GMT
HI Jonor,
to me it is multiple levels of veils, not just one. I think we eventually do learn how and why the veils where created,, their purpose... and how through evolution we learn to slowly unveil the veils when we are ready. (over lifetimes mostly). Some experience vibrational states beyond Some veils occasionally.. some mistakingly thinking it is all over. Because glimpses beyond the reality of the earth plane,,, even if it is only the beginning veils opening up, is so much more to our vision and being.
Their are a few Totally Enlightened beings who have integrated and reached total freedom to travel through all veils all the time. To take on the Divine Wisdom, Loving Bliss and Eternal Peace that it can bestow. They are the ones who understand about the veils. They are ones who help humanity to growth and awaken to Absolute Consciousness.
In one sense that is what the Spiritual Path is all about. The Journey-less Journey.
Just my understanding.
Peace and Happy Unveiling to Us all,
Aceofcups
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Post by sagemode on Mar 2, 2014 23:22:20 GMT
I would say that we have voluntarily chosen to become blind to who we are, so that we may recreate who we are. Everything that ever was, ever is, and ever shall be, was created all at once. So there's really nothing left to create. A creator who can't create is like a teacher who has nothing to teach because everything has already been taught, or an adventurer who has nothing to discover because everything has already been mapped and described. To keep the game going, we have chosen to forget about our creations so that we could have the experience of creating them once more.
The beauty of knowing this is that whatever you want to create (or become), already exists. That means you are Safe. You do not even have to create some superior version of yourself: it already exists. All that's left, is following directions. Since you know the version of you that you want to become, it becomes easy to take the right turns to get to it. This is really quite effortless. Indeed, life would be hard if we were seeking to do the impossible. Instead, we are simply doing the inevitable. Life is on your side, to a much greater extent than you ever anticipated or imagined.
The veil is there for us to appreciate the clarity of vision we'll have once this veil of not-knowing is gone. The veil will never completely disappear. It is our inner clarity, our inner light, that pierces through it. It is true knowing. It is walking through an illusory world and having the inner certainty that all of it is false. The external world cannot give you this certainty. It is your inner knowing that is stronger than anything the world can throw at you.
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Post by baangus on Mar 4, 2014 12:15:23 GMT
sagemode wrote: "This is really quite effortless. Indeed, life would be hard if we were seeking to do the impossible. Instead, we are simply doing the inevitable. Life is on your side, to a much greater extent than you ever anticipated or imagined."
More simplicity-wisdom brilliance, very nice.
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sparklekaz
Someone asked me.. What is your religion? I said, "All the paths that lead to the light".
Posts: 3,658
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Post by sparklekaz on Mar 4, 2014 13:26:11 GMT
Sage, you have beautifully put into words something that I had only half grasped, and now I see it much more clearly. So I thank you for that. I particularly loved "I would say that we have voluntarily chosen to become blind to who we are, so that we may recreate who we are. Everything that ever was, ever is, and ever shall be, was created all at once. So there's really nothing left to create. A creator who can't create is like a teacher who has nothing to teach because everything has already been taught, or an adventurer who has nothing to discover because everything has already been mapped and described. To keep the game going, we have chosen to forget about our creations so that we could have the experience of creating them once more."
On one hand, I find these words very comforting, and they reinforce the belief that I have that there is no right or wrong course of action and we are all ultimately going in the right direction. But on the other hand, I find it very poignant that so many people find themselves so far away from what they once were, their original state. Have lost touch with that inner clarity and light that guided the way. Gotten lost in the illusion and complication that this world often evokes. Forgotten that they are spiritual beings with a strong inner core of knowing right from wrong; And so are dragged along unresisting and unable to find their way back, because of their fears. I have read some many spiritual words about how love is our true state and fear is what we learn here. But it seems to me an odd contradiction, that beings born of love and an inherent awareness of who they are can be so easily consumed by fear.
I often wonder why fear, anxiety and confusion can take such a strong grip upon souls who only want to connect with the love inside. Who would willingly choose to experience such pain and conflict. Who would want to keep on recreating that. I believe many understand their circumstances are of their own creation on an intellectual level. But the grip of fear is so strong, they feel impotent as to know how to deal with it. That is I know the beauty of spiritual growth. But what is beautiful can also be terrifying; because growth is hard. For many feel alone and isolated, even when surrounded by many. And ask, how can we, such emotional and feeling beings, ever feel liberated. Love and light Kaz |
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Post by baangus on Mar 4, 2014 14:09:56 GMT
sparklekaz wrote: "I often wonder why fear, anxiety and confusion can take such a strong grip upon souls who only want to connect with the love inside."
That's just part of the veil experience is it not sparklekaz? In general, it seems to me people approach that particular life challenge in two ways. People -- especially in their younger years -- look beyond themselves in order to find comfort and confirmation (religious and spiritual doctrine, alien and conspiracy theorizing, relationships as well). That approach in my opinion quite often only serves to intensify one's fearful and confused life outlook. The other approach of course is the inner path, wherein one learns to address, heal and ultimately eradicate the source of those fears and all that confusion.
During my first four decades of life, I was certainly more inclined towards the former approach than the latter. Personally I don't wonder why people live in fear; it's a difficult world when one hasn't had that epiphany of self-realization clarity so to speak.
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sparklekaz
Someone asked me.. What is your religion? I said, "All the paths that lead to the light".
Posts: 3,658
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Post by sparklekaz on Mar 4, 2014 14:48:27 GMT
If you believe in Karma, then that would explain why people have certain painful life experiences, or are put in situations where they have to find a way of overcoming fear. And if you look at it that way, it would say that we are not born already perfect or entire. That over many lifetimes, there are still things we have not learnt or resolved.
I know of people who experienced situations in my their early life where they found the courage to walk away from fear and control. And through looking beyond themselves, by studying spiritual words and different beliefs, particularly Buddhism, were able to make sense of what went before and felt as if it all had it's purpose. For many years, they experienced peace and felt purposeful, that what they did mattered.
Then at a time when you would have thought things would have become clearer, easier for them. Circumstances arose, when in their middle years of life, they were thrown back into that earlier unhappy state. And were again faced with the same lessons. Again, having to work through and overcome fear. They have said to me, why is this happening again. I found my courage the first time, I found the inner strength, I acknowledged what had happened, and why and understood. So why, when life should be secure and settled, is this happening again. What then do we tell them? Some do have moments of great clarity and insight. But they are often short lived. I remember someone saying to me, if I chose this, I must be some kind of masochist.
Love and light
Kaz
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Post by baangus on Mar 4, 2014 15:29:06 GMT
sparklekaz wrote: "If you believe in Karma, then that would explain why people have certain painful life experiences, or are put in situations where they have to find a way of overcoming fear.
"I know of people who experienced situations in my their early life where they found the courage to walk away from fear and control."
The difference as I have experienced it in my life is this: When I was younger, I experienced a handful of difficult life situations over the years -- and that I might identify as karmic -- that I was fortunate enough to transform and/or escape from as a result of a sudden moment of self-understanding, or spiritual clarity, or what have you. So yes, we all have had those experiences in our younger years.
The thing is though, it was mostly an unconscious thing, and afterwards I would then stumble right back into my typical pattern of fear and confusion. My circumstances may have changed but the dysfunction was still there. This to me is the veil experience in process. It wasn't until my forties that I developed the inner awareness that allowed me to make conscious and unfettered choices for, really, the first time in my life.
Now if one believes in karma, then karma doesn't suddenly stop just because one is finally happy and in control of their life path. I would still be having karmic experiences; the difference is I'm aware of those karmic influences and so they no longer run my life so to speak. That again, in my opinion anyway, is a very real and concrete aspect of the veil experience lifting in one's life as one grows older and wiser.
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Post by baangus on Mar 5, 2014 12:02:01 GMT
Here is a wonderful explanation of what I have been attempting to describe as the lifting of the veil experience. This is hardly the end of one's spiritual growth and self-realization journey; rather, it marks a new beginning to that process, but with a new-found clarity and true self-understanding. When man raises himself above... Maya, and passes completely out of its influence, he becomes liberated from bondage and is placed in his real Self, the Eternal Spirit. On attaining this liberation, man becomes saved from all his troubles, and all the desires of his heart are fulfilled, so the ultimate aim of his life is accomplished.
www.thegodlight.co.uk/true-relation-with-existence-sri-yukteswar/
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Post by markings on Mar 10, 2014 4:09:07 GMT
The veil is your thinking. No thought, no veil.
What has to be born in mind is in this context thought is more than just conscious thoughts because it includes unconscious one's too. Stuff that goes on below the level of our normal awareness. Meditation and other practices are ways to drill down to that level and let the issues at that level resolve themselves or surface into conscious awareness.
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Ishtahota
The one question that anwsers all other questions. Who am I?
Posts: 184
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Post by Ishtahota on Mar 12, 2014 14:26:52 GMT
Some people may not want the veil removed. Seeing the total truth is way more then most can bear to look at. Seeing what we have become, who we really are, and what part we have played in shapeing the world into what it is today, may be way more then some can bear. I have seen people running and screaming, because they could not handle seeing what they saw on the other side of the veil. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU PRAY FOR!!!!
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Post by markings on Mar 13, 2014 4:27:05 GMT
I am not aware of any articles, reports or stories where a person after an enlightenment experience argues that they wish it would not have happened. What are you talking about, Ishtahota?
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Ishtahota
The one question that anwsers all other questions. Who am I?
Posts: 184
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Post by Ishtahota on Mar 13, 2014 5:05:27 GMT
I am not aware of any articles, reports or stories where a person after an enlightenment experience argues that they wish it would not have happened. What are you talking about, Ishtahota? When I first started walking the Native American way of life, I read lots of books and I talked with lots of people. And then one day I ran into some real people who were living the path. They did not read books. They experienced this way of life and they had a line of elders. What I read in books or saw in movies was nothing compared to really living it for myself. The experience of awakening is the same way. The books and the teachers who want to make a pretty penny teaching the way are far from the real experience. There are many lawyers to the higher spiritual experiences. And some of the experiences that people are having are created by their own ego, so that it can remain in control of their life. It is not always a wonderful experience. When spirit takes the blinders off and we see who we have become and what we have done to others, that can be hard to face. We are in duality consciousness and while in duality we can not see things as they really are. They way, the truth, and the light has left most of the people that I have worked with crying and screaming, before they could get beyond the veil and start to laugh at it all! while melting in euphoria. Experience and books are not the same thing. The easier softer way always sells really good. |
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Post by baangus on Mar 14, 2014 13:03:49 GMT
Hi Ishtahota. I've heard that sort of thing before on spiritual discussion boards. Personally, I don't understand the point of communicating the message that spiritual awakening is fear-inducing and terrifying on some level. Obviously, some people have had that particular experience and that's what they're relating, which is fine. But to insist the rest of us will, or that spiritual awakening cannot happen without it? And it seems to me that's what you're suggesting with your statements about "meeting real people who were living the path" versus "experiences that [other] people are having are created by their own ego." I just don't agree with that whole message. For me, it comes across as a new-age form of religious dictum and fear-mongering.
It just seems like such a negative take on what, in my experience, is a loving and natural self-awareness and inner-awakening process. On the other hand, if people imagine a spiritual world filled with devils, demons and other terrors, they're going to conjure all that up for themselves, yes. And I've seen that with people, including a now-deceased friend who couldn't live with the drug-induced demonic visions he created for himself.
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Ishtahota
The one question that anwsers all other questions. Who am I?
Posts: 184
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Post by Ishtahota on Mar 14, 2014 17:58:22 GMT
Hi Ishtahota. I've heard that sort of thing before on spiritual discussion boards. Personally, I don't understand the point of communicating the message that spiritual awakening is fear-inducing and terrifying on some level. Obviously, some people have had that particular experience and that's what they're relating, which is fine. But to insist the rest of us will, or that spiritual awakening cannot happen without it? And it seems to me that's what you're suggesting with your statements about "meeting real people who were living the path" versus "experiences that [other] people are having are created by their own ego." I just don't agree with that whole message. For me, it comes across as a new-age form of religious dictum and fear-mongering. It just seems like such a negative take on what, in my experience, is a loving and natural self-awareness and inner-awakening process. On the other hand, if people imagine a spiritual world filled with devils, demons and other terrors, they're going to conjure all that up for themselves, yes. And I've seen that with people, including a now-deceased friend who couldn't live with the drug-induced demonic visions he created for himself. Have you never heard of Spiritual Madness, Dark Days of the Soul, or Dark Night of the Soul? I deal with people who bring on these awakenings and then cannot deal with what happens to them. Some do have a good time and some do not. The mental hospitals are full of people who have had an awakening and then diagnosed with schizophrenia. Some are truely sick and some just need a place to get centered and adjusted to the new world that they find themselves in. Giving people only half of the truth about something, I wonder how that would work out? |
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Post by markings on Mar 15, 2014 6:15:37 GMT
The Dark Night of the Soul, or the Great Doubt, are pre-enlightenmnet experiences, some say the last hurdle. This may be painful and difficult to bear for some and some may shrink back from pushing through it.
However, this experience is not "Seeing the total truth ...." but just something that may happen along the way.
To use that to caution people against seeking enlightenment is IMO misplaced.
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sparklekaz
Someone asked me.. What is your religion? I said, "All the paths that lead to the light".
Posts: 3,658
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Post by sparklekaz on Mar 15, 2014 12:20:23 GMT
I don't think Ishta is cautioning people 'against' seeking enlightenment.. just making a point, that spiritual growth is not all 'love and light'. It can bring to the surface things that can be hard to confront. Even aspects of the darkside of our nature, other people's etc. I really don't think it's mean't to deter anyone. Just to present another side of the face of inner work and spiritual practice. Not saying everyone will experience it, but if they do 'this is what it might be kind of thing'. In a way I would find it reassuring to know if I was experiencing any of the problems mentioned, that it was for want of a better word, normal. All part of the metamorphisis process of awakening.
I do think also if people are having any negative spiritual experiences they should seek help and guidance from other's who are more experienced in these matters. I guess that is why we get so many come onto this forum and other's like it, for advice. As finding a spiritual teacher/guide/mentor isn't always easy. In the west we are not a culture that has those people in any number, are we? But having said that, it is always possible to find groups who specialise in metaphysical practice; A development circle/group within the spiritualist church, or join an esoteric school. They are out there.
I remember a long time ago, when first really getting into spirituality and practicing energy work and meditation. My mentor at the time told me that the spiritual path was not for the faint hearted. That you needed to be mentally strong, and will need courage and discernment. That blindly rushing in without preperation and protection would be foolhardy and dangerous. He was a ordained clergyman who was unique in his interests in other spiritual beliefs. Ishta's words reminded me of his. It never put me off moving forward on my spiritual path, it simply made me better prepared I feel for whatever I encountered. Which I believe was all Ishta was trying to do.
Love and light
Kaz
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Post by markings on Mar 16, 2014 4:08:55 GMT
Kaz, you put some good spin on it. I have read the posts again and see little evidence that it should be interpreted in the way you say. "BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU PRAY FOR!!!!" says to me very much don't pray for it ... unless you are some special human being. There is of course no way of finding out whether one is that special human being without actually doing it, which makes the caution rather pointless.
"When spirit takes the blinders off and we see who we have become and what we have done to others, that can be hard to face." This is misleading because it implies that one's judgment about self and others remains as we are now. It is as if only part of us moves forward while some parts will keep to the status quo to cause trouble. I think this would be a quite peculiar kind of spiritual development. It would be something that I would be wary of especially in spiritualist churches or esoteric schools because they have their prepared explanations to which they will fit the experience. IMO few to none go to the core of our human questions and provide good and final answers. The only school I have faith in in that respect is Zen, and Pureland and Tibetan Buddhism, as long as it operates within a Zen'ish framework.
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Post by baangus on Mar 16, 2014 10:58:27 GMT
Giving people only half of the truth about something, I wonder how that would work out? Perhaps Ishtahota. Seems to me though the equivalent of telling someone who is about to learn to drive that they may crash into a tree or run over a pedestrian. Reinforcing the negative creates negative energy; that's how things work from my experience. Guess my take on spiritual work is less fretful and more glass-is-half-full than some. I say the world is lovely, and that loveliness is enough. ~ Robert William Buchanan |
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sparklekaz
Someone asked me.. What is your religion? I said, "All the paths that lead to the light".
Posts: 3,658
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Post by sparklekaz on Mar 16, 2014 11:47:09 GMT
I do see where you are both coming from markings and baangus. I was just trying to see it from Ishta's perspective also. I suppose it all has a lot to do with someone's personal experience on their spiritual path. I'm feeling that Ishta's way was more shamanic, through Native American spirituality. Mine, so far has been through healing and energy work. Self growth and insight by following more of the Buddhist teachings. I am not a Buddhist, but it is the philosophy that resonates the most with me. Still really baby steps.
Something else to consider, is that maybe Ishta has had more than his fair share of negative experiences. And feels a responsibility to share that with others. I personally have not encountered anything negative so far. The odd heaviness and sense of something more of a not good energy when healing others. But because of my early guidance from my own mentor when starting out, I have always used strong auric protection, when opening up to spirit. But, I have heard stories from others who I was for a time learning along side of. And their experiences were darker. On one ocassion, the meditation group I belonged too, had to deal with the negative side. I at the time was on a break from the group as it was the six week school holidays. Apparently, one of our group. A lovely calm, strong women, a serene older lady who through meditation, was developing her intuitive abilities.
She was thrilled to have connected to her 'spirit guide' who she at first referred to as 'the lady'. The lady told her that they had once lived, and had been a Nun in a french convent. In time she told her, her name, and quite a bit about her 'old life'. As time progressed other members of the group saw her in their meditations and dreams. Gradually, the women whose guide she proclaimed to be started to experience a heaviness and depression. Thoughts of self harm, almost to the point of suicide were ocuring. This started alarm bells ringing in the leader of the group as you can imagine. So the leader of the group, my mentor asked the women to test her. By asking her did she believe in God and his authority and to step into the light. She refused to answer. So the women was advised to stop the connection.
After this the negative and self harm thoughts increased with a vengance. Others in the group started to experience similar to a lesser degree. In the end they conducted a very powerful cleansing. As a ordained priest the leader of group was well equipped for this. But still it took a while to rid themselves of it's presence. I was told all of this when I started attending again regularly. It quite frightened me, and I was relieved I'd been away while all of this was going on. My teacher told me he felt that I was kept away to protect me. Being the youngest, empathic and sensitive, and it was very early on in my development. I would have been very vulnerable. It was also a learning experience for them. That I couldn't have coped with at that time. To be honest looking back, it would definitely have put me off. As I think back to that time, I remember I could have gone to the meetings as it was weekly in the evening. I could have got a babysitter. Thinking about it now, I remember at the time, I just didn't feel like going. Which was odd reflecting on it, as I really looked forward to it. I felt tired and low in myself and just didn't want to do it. Maybe on an unconscious level, I had picked up on the energy there when we met, as the women had told us all about her first encounter with 'The Lady'. It was odd that my reticence to attend coincided with this negative experience they were having. It also showed that even within a group that was well organised and used proper protection, that, that protection could be breached. I think that we all learned not to become complacent and to always test what comes, no matter how harmless it might seem. I do think sometimes in our enthusiasm to learn and experiment, we can become a little reckless and blind to early warning signs, that things may not be what they seem.
I believe that there is much beauty in the world and that world is opened up in a much greater and deeper way as our understanding and spiritual eyes are opened. My appreciation of the world, and my relationships with other people has been enriched in so many ways. I focus on the positive, but I accept there is the negative. I think you can focus on the one without ignoring the other. But as you have said, it shouldn't be the primary focus, or it might deter someone altogether, which I don't think was Ishta's intention. I just feel in this instance he was writing his post from that perspective. I am positive his experiences encompass far more then that. Spirituality is so multi faceted isn't it. I think he was just talking about one facet based on what he himself has experienced.
Love and light
Kaz
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Post by baangus on Mar 16, 2014 13:21:58 GMT
Hi Kaz. I understand, and I have heard other people relate similar stories and experiences. I haven't had anything remotely negative, let alone sinister, happen to me in my 40+ years of spiritual searching apart from some very unpleasant human interactions, which is the way life of course. I suppose I find it difficult relating to such experiences; they are so far removed from anything I've encountered.
One thing though: spirituals who choose to experiment with mediumship and with contacting spirit guides and so forth, are in my opinion setting themselves up for experiences of that sort. Again, if I go looking for spirits and entities, I'm going to conjure them up for myself on some level.
Spiritual self-development on the other hand involves another approach to things metaphysical; specifically, a different investigative starting point. There's no wish or desire to get in touch with God, Jesus, Buddha, spirit guides, ghosts, aliens or whatever other spirit beings we've come to believe exist. The opposite is the case in fact and involves clearing the mind of such external concepts and abstractions. I'm suggesting that's the difference here when all is said and done.
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cyberangel
~ As above so below, as within so without ~
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Post by cyberangel on Mar 16, 2014 17:50:32 GMT
Hi All,
I would like to share something among the mix if that is ok. I can see all your points of views, and all in my opinion, equally valid. My own Spiritual experience was and is one of openness. As some of you know my spiritual awakening began aged 8 years old, I won’t go into the experience here as I have shared it before in different threads, but I have never really been a seeker until now and if I’m honest I’m not even seeking anymore more of observing, and wondering where my path is leading me.
When I was only in my mid to late teens I had an experience that I was not looking for nor initiated, (I have shared this experience many times here and in chat so I will cut it short if I can) but what happened to me was...I awoke to find myself paralyzed, then fear crept in and I found myself helpless and thought I was about to die, this was a profoundly disturbing experience and one that scared me for many many years after, and one if I’m honest froze me from exploring the spiritual side of life.
To give you some idea of what I experienced...after I awoke and couldn’t move except my eyes and I could not make any sound whatsoever, as the tears rolled down my cheeks and neck, I felt something come to take me(my soul) away, a ‘blackness’ which was pulling at my feet and I was so scared as I knew I didn’t want to go with it, but was helpless to stop it pulling me out, I screamed in my head to stop, I began to pray to God and Jesus to save me, I begged them to come help me, to wake someone up in the house to help me, I could feel myself getting weaker and weaker and I knew I was a goner, my instinct knew that where I was going there would be no return, this blackness that I experienced was not good, it felt evil, it really did, and I just knew that I did not want it to take me.
Just as I thought I was about to be lost forever, a ‘Whiteness’ appeared at my head and started pulling me back, there was an actual spiritual tug of war going on within my body. All I could do was to focus on the whiteness, I had no idea what the whiteness was except it felt good and loving and that it had come to save me, it was reassuring me without words that everything was going to be ok. I remember a snap in my body and all of a sudden the blackness shot out of the window and I could move again, the whiteness slowly faded away, but left me with a beautiful feeling of calmness and reassurance.
Tears flowed again but tears of happiness and relief this time. And although I knew what had just happened I felt no fear no longer, although the fear of what happened did return after some time and left me with like a scar. I spoke to a priest about it several years after and he said I was about to be processed (which scared me even more) but I highly doubt that now, in fact I completely doubt it, I have shared the experience here to which others have said I was about to astral travel, which if I am honest I also doubt that too, although I can except and see the similarities but I can’t forget the feeling of a dark evil presence sucking my essence from my body, and a white presence appearing to save me, I had no control of either one, but was completely aware of my own soul and was absolutely terrified for it.
Now to get to what Ishtahota said, I can completely relate to his point of people screaming and running from what they are not ready for or prepared for, from my own experience I understand, except I did not go looking in the first place, I agree and see the importance that one should to do the ground (inner) work first before attempting other spiritual experiences, but how many know this before hand? Many like me only discover it along the journey. I have no fear of what happened to me will ever happen again either, but the memory of it still gives me shivers. I also have no idea why I had the experience I had, there are no answers only questions, but I have decided to leave it be, to feel blessed that I came through an awful ordeal and know it will never happen again, that is good enough for me.
And as I’ve said in other posts, a spiritual path is not an easy path, but is totally worth it if you are willing to put the work in. In relation to “How do you remove the veil?” I would not question on how to remove it but “Why was it put there?” Again, neither question raises something inside me that I want to explore for myself, I am happy for now just observing, wandering and discovering all that I am meant to. I also would not like to think of myself as being dismissal of someone else’s experiences either, just because it may be different from my own, or my own beliefs. There are many many spiritual paths, some are no doubt more challenging than others, but as they say where I come from, “Each to their own”. An interesting thread friends with many great teachings.
Love and Light
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Post by markings on Mar 17, 2014 5:02:56 GMT
One thing though: spirituals who choose to experiment with mediumship and with contacting spirit guides and so forth, are in my opinion setting themselves up for experiences of that sort. Again, if I go looking for spirits and entities, I'm going to conjure them up for myself on some level. And IMO that puts a real question mark over all Spiritualist Churches. I do not consider them a healthy way of seeking answers. |
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Post by baangus on Mar 17, 2014 10:32:16 GMT
One thing though: spirituals who choose to experiment with mediumship and with contacting spirit guides and so forth, are in my opinion setting themselves up for experiences of that sort. Again, if I go looking for spirits and entities, I'm going to conjure them up for myself on some level. And IMO that puts a real question mark over all Spiritualist Churches. I do not consider them a healthy way of seeking answers. Hi markings. I would say that as long as the organization isn't an out-and-out cult, then a spiritualist church can be an viable option for some. But I do understand where you're coming from with that comment. My comment had to do with explaining why spiritual seekers who choose the outer path versus the inner path -- who choose mediumship, contacting spirits and entities etc. over the self-realization/inner-development path -- might find themselves in situations where they end up running and screaming from whatever it is they encounter. I would hesitate to say one path is better than the other. But I'm definitely saying that screaming and running away in terror is not something that happens on the inner meditative path. We're talking here about two different approaches to spiritual seeking that can and do lead to very different metaphysical experiences. |
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Post by baangus on Mar 17, 2014 11:11:53 GMT
To give you some idea of what I experienced... Hi cyberangel. Facinating  story! I had something similar happen to me at the age of 18, right down to the white light and the energy flying out the window. Here's a question for you now: Could you have been experiencing death, or what it feels like to die? And could it be that you, in your fear and as a young person with no spiritual experience whatsoever, related to that out-of-body energy experience as something 'evil'? It wasn't until my mid-forties that I overcame my fear of death. And this was after two decades of spiritual seeking and having come to the understanding that we're eternal souls who live many lifetimes. Yet even knowing all that, I still feared dying. The thought of death threw me into a kind of black pit of darkness. Having an out-of-body experience of what it feels like to die would freak most people out, that's a fact. I would say people in general label things they fear and don't understand as bad and even evil. And especially an experience such as yours where there's a real physical sensation of the soul leaving and the physical self dissipating. What you went through may have been a conscious experience of death and rebirth, and what that feels like. |
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cyberangel
~ As above so below, as within so without ~
Posts: 818
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Post by cyberangel on Mar 17, 2014 12:07:11 GMT
Hi Baangus, Thank you for your comment. Firstly, I think it’s important to establish that I have ‘naturally’ always been very spiritual and had several spiritual experiences from the age of 8, but without seeking it if that makes sense. Secondly, I have never feared death and still don’t to this day  Thirdly, I can only go by my feelings on the experience I had, I can only name it as an ‘EVIL’ presence, and yes I did think I was going to die, but it wasn’t the fear of death, it was the fear of what had hold of me, and what it had intended. I have never experienced anything like that since, yet the memory of it is as fresh as it was that night. I can only say is was evil because, I have had some nasty things happen in my life and this was by far the most terrifying and I can’t describe it except for a blackness and the feeling was so intense that everything within my being knew it was far from good. Finally, I would be willing discuss or answer any questions on this experience with you or anyone if you would like to at some stage and we can share in greater detail if you like our experiences, but I don’t want to do it here out of respect for Jonor and his question, as I don’t think it would be fair to change the subject of his thread. I had only used my experience as a way of seeing Ishtahota’s point and relating to what he was saying. I would certainly be interested in hearing more about your own experience Baangus sometime, I think we may have experienced something very similar by the sounds of it. Take care my friend, Love and Light |
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bazraz
I'm not a human having a spiritual experience, but spirit having a human experience:
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Post by bazraz on Mar 25, 2014 6:14:41 GMT
When im at work, I channel to myself alot and have come up with alot of interesting things including the purpose of the veil.
There is indeed a purpose for the veil, imagine spirit coming to earth to get experience in the 3d realm we call earth, all experience, the good and the bad.
Now imagine the human mind, was created on our 1st incarnation and comes back every time after to gain wisdom and spiritual knowledge of the 3d world. The mind was created to serve and help the little human to survive the 3d harsh reality.
If there was no veil and the mind could remember every instance of every incarnation, it would follow the same pathway in every lifetime to help the little human with whatever it wants, and it wants happiness and abundance, and the mind will help to create that in every lifetime by following the same steps, eg if i do this, that will happen then that will happen etc and what would happen to spirit, spirit would only experience the good and not the bad for that is what the mind will have created for the little human.
Sorry for the long winded reply but this is my 1st post/reply. there is more I could add, but you get the idea.
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