Drugs and Spirituality

[subsidinginsanity]

Last night I had bad stomach cramps. I took too many pain meds including hydrocodone. It was a bad night. The pain gradually subsided and I fell asleep. When I woke up this mourning, after throwing up a bit, I feel like I love everybody and everything

The proponents of LSD claim that it can advance people Spiritually, and the Native Americans seem to have similar thoughts about their drugs of choice. I'd be interested in hearing people's views on this. Is Spiritual advancement benefited or harmed by drug use?

[gruntal]

As a native of the American South West I might claim special dispensation for peyote. Except as genetic Scott's Irish my DNA probably only has an affinity for whiskey. Actually my prescriptions pills are bad enough to make even a glass of wine risky. Supposedly I can't even have a tooth pulled with out a doctors approval.

Drug use, like immigration, like marriage, like racial and ethnic definitions; seem to seek some vindication from ages ago when things were a lot different. I think that is a rationale. We are not going to hear from some body from the last century and from the Amazon jungle. To me imitating the drug use of vastly different times and places makes as much sense as a Westerner living in a monastery. Or as they say in real estate: "it's location location location!".

The only group I know of that never had access to drugs were the Eskimos because nothing narcotic or hallucinatory could grow in such cold climates and last I heard they were no more or less spiritual then anybody else. They may have smelled funny because of a steady diet of fat and blubber but I'm sure they were every bit as worthy as any other human being that walked the face of the earth.


Actually I stink too. I am not too sure which pill is responsible for that. But that is doctor's orders. Anything else I do is only my responsibility. Since that might work on different levels I am afraid to "push it" any more then I am.

Besides if I did meet G*d He might say: "is that really you talking or just the Magic Mushrooms?" Awrk@!

[Ishtahota]

The plants and the drugs can take you places and show you things, but they are just tempoarary shortcuts at best and they can end up being traps of the ego. Sometimes you take a journey and you get answers, but when you come down you can not remember what it is that you learned. Higher knowledge has to be earned. Any of the highs and the knowledge that you can have with the plants and the drugs you can also have with the power of your spirit. Once you come down you still have to do your personal clearing work.
The real shamans will only use these plants on you once or twice to show you what is possible if you are willing to do the work.

[subsidinginsanity]

I guess they haven't come out with an ego pill yet.

[wayne]

Correct me if I'm wrong Ishtahota …

The use of these herbs and plants by Shaman’s is for the betterment of the entire tribe is the reason why they use them. The Shaman’s role is for the spiritual upkeep of everyone under their care. When they use these plants they first offer it to the creator asking for guidance in why its being used, and to be given insight that will benefit the tribe. This way the Creator accepts the offering onto Himself whereas the effects do not hinder the Shaman in anyway and there is no bad karma accumulated.

On the other hand though, those who take drugs for mere pleasure do not realise the damage they do to themselves physically and spiritually. Yes, they might get some pleasure and relief at first but only because it affects the mind in such a way, that it elevates them away from their surroundings and confinement that they are in at present. But you cannot stay for too long as you must come back.

The negative effects that are not seen by the physical eye is terribly damaging and it takes a long time to repair. But this is not all - as you are building bad karma and you will pay for your actions.

You see, in everything said and done it first must register on the mind. God sees every motive behind ones thoughts, hence it first registers on their mind. No one can escape this as God (the Creator) is the silent and eternal witness.

[alvinw333]

It might be ok for a Shamman and his group (religon) because of there experance they get, cause experance is the best teacher of realization. Anyway in my spiritual path they let us know about drugs, the spiritual leader sid its ok what the doctor perscribes, but drugs and the Holy Spirit don't mix. And also we should provide for the Laws of the land,. Anyway I dabled in smoking pot but noticed I couldnt rember my dreams and noticed I was inf,uenced

[alvinw333]

I was inffluenced more in some things the negative way, and my inner ears or my inner hearing was turned down. And one of our teachers onr time showed us and elictric aroa of a hand a hand before not smoking pot and after smoking pot, the colars changed had daker colars in the pot one

[alvinw3]

I did experience, I believe Astral travel by doing a little to much of LSD before I was on a spiritual path. When I flue past Mars I seen a big angle with a bird face that looked at me and said, Who are you, what is yuur purpose and destination. I didnt realy know and sudenly two Chery Bims ( little angles) escorded me back toearth. The only thing I learned was we are Soul and Soul lives forever

[gruntal]

Partly because of my acid reflux booze does not taste the same to me as it did when I was young. I think "Blue cloud" smells like rotten spinach and don't want that going into my lungs because my world smells bad enough as it is. It isn't as much as I can not afford to be any sicker as it is I don't know if I can stand any more medications. My body is wearing out it would seem and the crutches we benefited from in the past do not work as well. Which makes me wonder how much we should depend on chemistry for our salvation. Not to mention when the power fails I can loose all my groceries but I can always drive into town for a fast food hamburger. Except my oxygen concentrator does not work on batteries!

The next time somebody suggests I use tranquilizers I am tempted to haul off and slug them to prove a point except I realize that is a contradiction in terms. So I force myself to try and be calm! It drives them crazy but that is part of the fun ...

[alvinw3]

Some drugs to heal the body are sometimes recamended by the Holy Spirit in the dream state, or even directed to another doctor. What Im trying to say is the Holy Spirit or spiritual Master will sugest herbs or drugs to heal the body or keep it running without pain, but froun on playing with drugs for fun which slows ones unfoldment or progress on the spiritual path

[Leon]

Subsidinginsanity you start by saying that you was taking medicine for stomach cramps, I do not know how the conversation converted to taking LSD. You was ill one day and woke up the next day after being sick, you had a feeling that you wanted to love everybody and everything. Which is a natural feeling after being sick. I have been sick many a time, to feel very happy the next day, just because I am not sick anymore. To put it down to taking drugs, is a little naive.

If you were a shaman taking drugs, you would not have been typing your message from home, you would be in the middle of the jungle, part of a tribe that used such methods to see events or spirit that would be helpful for the tribe. You are not living this way, you are living a life like most of us. To think you will become more spiritual and wise from taking drugs is very foolhardy, more than likely you will see the effects from the drug and not a vision of meaning.

I for example have not took drugs, I can see spirit, I am given wisdom from the universe that has helped many people including myself. I can find contentment without using anything more than the power of my own spirit. Maybe you are weak, maybe you need a crutch to help you find the answers, if so admit it! I am not saying taking drugs is wrong, it is a personal choice. What I am saying is that you do not need them, there are far safer ways. If I can manage to decipher spiritual truths through meditation and contemplation, so can you.

[Deleted]

Hi all, so I am a newbie here and would like to vent my humble opinion.

I have been a regular drinker a couple of times a month and smoked a little weed in my time but resisted anything stronger. Pot makes me sleepy and I know people say that's the point, well I don't get it and I don't like it.

When I was a student it felt like we were given more facts at Uni before peer pressure had chance to kick in. Of course these days kids are so grown up they need that info much sooner.

Anyway I welcome the discussion and I would like to add two things.
1, Since becoming spiritually aware in the last five years I notice that a good night on the beer damps my ability to focus and meditate.
2, I told a friend the following and they were impressed. I found a new drug, it's very addictive and I try to do it every day. It makes me smile at the blue sky and leap around and want to do stuff. It makes me love everyone around me. Hey it's totally harmless man, honest! You can do it too, in fact I encourage it. It's called life and everything that is in it, my friend. Come and join all of the ones like us and never have to look back.

By the ways eating fresh fruit and veg regularly seems to amplify the effect. People always want the quick fix pill. What about the good hard work solution that lasts forever?

[baangus]

Jan 20, 2015 19:40:10 GMT @arbemo said:

2, I told a friend the following and they were impressed. I found a new drug, it's very addictive and I try to do it every day. It makes me smile at the blue sky and leap around and want to do stuff. It makes me love everyone around me. Hey it's totally harmless man, honest! You can do it too, in fact I encourage it. It's called life and everything that is in it, my friend. 

Ha-ha arbemo, yes indeed. The difficult thing with that though is one must be in love with life to appreciate it in that manner. Many people struggle with life which is why they turn to alcohol and drugs. How it is we can learn to cultivate an appreciation and reverence for incarnation is the interesting question here for me.

[Leon]

Great words arbemo, we all join the spiritual path because of many reasons, we all come from many backgrounds. I am sure none of us have led a perfect life without needing some sort of crutch at some point in our lives, whether that be drugs, alcohol or cigarettes. In my opinion nothing is bad for you if it helps you get through a bad spell in your life. The problems start when someone gets addictive to something that in the long-term will be detrimental to their health, mind and well-being. If you can find a safer way of enlightening your mind, you must seek it. I remember a situation many years ago in our chat room, a girl had just joined who had been on drugs for many years, she was clean and trying to get on with her life in as pure a way as possible. She was glad to meet people who had accepted her for who she was. Not many days later a guy came in the room banging on about the visions he had while taking drugs, he saw no harm in it and felt it was the best route to find happiness and enlightenment. To our horror, the girl who had just come off drugs left, she did not want to be told the route to God or enlightenment was through drugs, the same sort of drugs that destroyed her life. She never came back to the room, she thought she had found a safe haven, only to be destroyed by someone who did not have the maturity to understand the power their words held with another. That really upset me, and it one reason why as a group we take matters like this serious, we are all open minded but at some point you have to stand up for what is right.

[Deleted]

Thanks baangus and Leon, I am so sorry for the girl who came for help and then ignored it, there are always other things we do not know about people. But I agree with you both, I too have relied on props at bad times. I have also had friends whose lives where affected by addictions to substances and bad habits. Certainly none of us are immune to temptation. I had bad mental health problems a couple of years ago and thought at the very least I would go back to smoking cigarettes or excessive drinking. Thankfully I was guided and supported, possibly in ways I still do not realize. That changed my life and my viewpoint, I got help very late in my illness because I was too proud to admit that I could not cope. Thankfully I have made the changes I needed to and my life is much happier. I hope to stay close to people like you all on here to guide me to help others too.

[stardust]

I believe if we reach an altered state on drugs, it is only temporary and dangerous. And it is a negative influence because it is easy to get addicted. And if addicted, things get so bad, many of its victims are existing in what is called the underworld. I think it is bad enough that we have to take painkillers for health reasons, let alone for recreational use.
And getting personal, I have gone through this with family members, and it was a hellish experience for all of us.

[Bartholomew]

Sept 3, 2012 17:12:38 GMT subsidinginsanity said:

Last night I had bad stomach cramps. I took too many pain meds including hydrocodone. It was a bad night. The pain gradually subsided and I fell asleep. When I woke up this mourning, after throwing up a bit, I feel like I love everybody and everything

The proponents of LSD claim that it can advance people Spiritually, and the Native Americans seem to have similar thoughts about their drugs of choice. I'd be interested in hearing people's views on this. Is Spiritual advancement benefited or harmed by drug use?

When shamans use mushrooms or when others use drugs in order to open a door to spirituality they have some success but they go no higher than the astral plane.  Sure it's a wonderful place with all sorts of adventurous things.   It is also the domain of the trickster coyote of Native American lore.  The spirituality of the astral is strictly Earth bound.  One can go no higher.  There are no masters or adepts there but there are plenty of pretenders waiting to fool the unwary.   If the goal is to be entertained go to the astral.  If the goal is spiritual advancement and eventual freedom from physical expression then practice the meditations which will take the traveler to the realm of the divine, and higher.  To to this one needs to have a purified channel which means no alcohol, tobacco, drugs.... etc.   Meat eating is OK but no meditations should be attempted while the body is busy digesting.   Not many of us are willing to make this sacrifice.  I speak from experience.  I try every day.  Everyday I have some success and some failure.  I keep trying.   I speak from experience.

True spirituality and freedom result only when the crown is fully or nearly fully opened.  This can never be provoked artificially.   The kundalini must open in it's own time, naturally.  When drugs or sex are used by the neophyte thinking a spiritual experience awaits only pain will result. 

Until the traveler is ready let the safety of religious practice suffice. 


One last thought is that feeling good is an astral reaction. The astral is the plane of feelings. Astral plane love is only a reflection of true love which is nothing to do with emotion. There's nothing wrong with it. Recognize it for what it is. With true high spiritual experiences there are no emotional reactions. It is important that the aspirant know the difference.