Does growth require pain or suffering?

[clara927]

Growth of any kind is said to be painful and I think that includes spiritual growth. Why do you think that growth is painful? Does growth have to be painful? Do you think we attract experiences that are painful in order to grow or does God place these experiences in our path?

[aceofcups]

HI Clara... good question....I think we can learn by pain (suffering), but we can also learn from joy and happiness -- But learning from happy experiences feels a lot better at times..lol. In Buddhism, The Four Noble Truths sees our attachments to our ego, wanting things the way WE want them to be, and living on earth as being filled with suffering. Suffering CAN be a way to growth especially if we understand the causes and the way out – leading to awareness and wisdom. Mindless suffering may help us karmically as a Soul – but have little effect on our conscious understanding without awareness added.

I don’t believe that painful experiences are brought by a Godhead ,,, it is our own karmic predicament and lack of spiritual understanding at this stage of our spiritual evolution which makes it come into our life. If you believe that God is the laws of the universe ,,then in a round about way you can say it is from God bringing it to us. Just my understanding.

peace, charlie

[sparklekaz]

Dear Clara,

I agree with most of what Ace has said. I do not believe it is necessary to suffer to grow spiritually, but it would seem that the times we do grow the most seem to be connected to these experiences.

There is a belief that the root of suffering is caused by the mind's attachment to people, things and lack of self belief. But unless we are born with the ability to see the future, to know when we are being deceived or lied too, how can we avoid being hurt?

Innocence protects us up to a certain point, but sadly, the world is not a place for innocents, and we have to learn coping skills and discernment to protect ourselves. I think the hardest part of growing up, emotionally and spiritually, is to learn to rise above those emotional ups and downs to see the bigger picture.

To let go of feelings of low self esteem based on the opinions of others, or the need to have to be the same as everyone else to measure your own self worth. Life can be incredibly joyful, we have the capacity as human beings to love deeply. We have depth and sensitivity to appreciate all the subtle nuances of the world and how to interact with others in so many meaningful ways. It would seem though, that it is through these painful experiences that we become shaped and honed into a vessel that has the capacity to experience the heights of spiritual joy and enlightenment.

There is a beautiful story called 'The Potter & The Clay'. The story is told of a couple who went to England to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary and shopped at a beautiful antique store. They both liked antiques and pottery,and especially tea-cups,and so spotting an exceptional cup,they asked "May we see that? We've never seen a cup quite so beautiful."

As the lady handed it to them, suddenly the tea-cup spoke... "You don't understand." It said, "I have not always been a tea-cup. There was a time when I was just a lump of red clay. My master took me and rolled me pounded and patted me over and over and I yelled out, Don't do that. I don't like it! "Let me alone," but he only smiled, and gently said; "Not yet!!" "Then, WHAM! I was placed on a spinning wheel and suddenly I was spun around and around and around. "Stop it! I'm getting so dizzy! I'm going to be sick!" I screamed.

But the master only nodded and said, quietly; 'Not yet.'

He spun me and poked and prodded and bent me out of shape to suit himself and then...he put me in the oven. I never felt such heat. I yelled and knocked and pounded at the door.

"Help! Get me out of here!" 'Not yet.' When I thought I couldn't bear it another minute, the door opened. He carefully took me out and put me on the shelf, and I began to cool.

Oh, that felt so good! "Ah, this is much better," I thought. But, after I cooled he picked me up and he brushed and painted me all over. The fumes were horrible.. "Oh, please, Stop it! Stop it!" I cried. He only shook his head and said. "Not yet..."

Then suddenly he put me back into the oven. Only it was not like the first time. This time it was twice as hot and I just knew I would suffocate. I begged... I pleaded... I screamed...I cried... I was convinced I would never make it. I was ready to give up and just then the door opened and he took me out and again placed me on the shelf, where I cooled and waited and waited, wondering "What's he going to do to me next?"

An hour later he handed me a mirror and said "Look at yourself."

And I did... I said, "That's not me, that couldn't be me. It's beautiful. I'm beautiful!"

Quietly he spoke: "I want you to remember, then," he said, "I know it hurt to be rolled and pounded and patted, but had I just left you alone, you'd have dried up. I know it made you dizzy to spin around on the wheel, but if I had stopped, you would have crumbled.

"I know it hurt and it was hot and disagreeable in the oven, but if I hadn't put you there, you would have cracked. I know the fumes were bad when I brushed and painted you all over, but if I hadn't done that, you never would have hardened. You would not have had any color in your life.

"And if I hadn't put you back in that second oven, you wouldn't have survived for long because the hardness would not have held. Now you are a finished product. Now you are what I had in mind when I first began with you."

Love and light
Kaz

[aceofcups]

PS to great sorry shared by Kaz

And then the cup finished and said: “ thank you thank you.. Now I get filled up with glorious tea and spend my days being happily kissed by the lips of everybody who uses me.”

peace,
charlie

[sparklekaz]

What a beautiful ending to a great story Ace, it really made me smile..

Thank you for that my friend.

Love and light
Kaz

[bluestarman1]

Hey Clara,

I think that this idea of spiritual growth having to be painful is a myth perpetrated by those who may not want you to grow. Look at it like this: would you rather suffer and survive the death of a your child and then thank God for making you stronger spiritually because of your suffering and pain; or would you rather watch your children grow and prosper and find happiness with their own families while thanking God spiritually for the joy that fills your life?

Maybe the only "pain" in growing spiritually is letting go of preconceived notions holding you back.

[shaw-09]

Hey clara,

Growth is not painful... its just tht we registed it under the folder "PAINFUL" or other words, we classified it as pain...

Pain is a classification we gave it.. try to thing about it...
Imagine if we classified Growth under the folder JOY .... goshhh.. saying it itself makes me feel happy and smile automaticly appears on my face...

Try switching the folders... I bet u can... then see the difference... pain will become joy and satisfaction... ... remember.. u will never noe till u try...

Gd luck... remember delete folder >> PAIN
create folder >>JOY
and from now on Transfer to folder >> JOY

[Ishtahota]

People do not realize how much we lie to ourselves. Pain and suffering is about equal to our resistance to our own personal truth. It takes a lot of pain and suffering to break down some peoples EGO.
Take drugs and alcohol as an example. Some people see these things as a curse. The truth is that God loved us enough to give us what we asked for, even if it kills us. God gave some of us the only thing left that could put us on our knees, the only thing that could cut threw our egos, so that we would finally be forced to truly grow spiritually. My old man always told me that we pray for the way the truth and the light, but when it really comes, 99% of us will run like hell the other way, screaming our heads off. And he was right.
For a thousand years or so we have had Christianity. Something sent to us by spirit and then perverted by other people to keep us from spirituality. And as of late we have had the New Age love and light movement. The New Age movement was a lot like Christianity, but it was put in a pretty new package. If you have a problem put love and light around it and never deal with it, and maybe it will go away.
Real Spirit Stuff works backwards from the way we think it does from the physical point of view. Real Spirit work sucks in the beginning, until you figure out the pay off, the rush of energy, and the greater sense of freedom, that comes from completing the harder lessons. I tell people to learn to love the AFGE. (AFGE= Another Friggen Growth Experience.)
I could take my woes and pains and surround them in love and light like so many New Age bliss bunnies, but I do not want to feel the big empty creeping up in my soul like so many of my 50 and 60 year old friends feel today.

[clara927]

Hello Ishtahota,

What is the big empty?

Thank you in advance

[Ishtahota]

The Big Empty is the feeling that you missed something, or that there is no longer any point to life. Many people never make the spiritual journey at all and they miss the few windows of opportunity to find their vision and purpose for their life, and that is the only thing that can lead us to our true joy, and bliss. They went to sleep somewhere between childhood and becoming an adult, they became what the world expected of them and not the spiritual potential that stays hidden inside of us when we are asleep.

[gruntal]

There are no free rides in the Cosmos. Never. Everything must be paid for. It could be paid by someone or something else. Or it could have been paid in advance in which case the "interest" would be nothing.

To say as spiritual beings we can solve all our problems and grow easily by "letting go" is itself a very painfull thing. Does that mean the very things that keep us alive are also killing us? We will never know untill we take the ultimate plunge and find out. I am not looking foward to that.

It is suggested in the end we will all show off our scars as proof we paid our dues. I do find one thing very comforting: at least we can safely assume spirituality is not for wimps.

Wow! That guy sitting next to me looks like he was run over by a truck! But he has the brightest halo at the table!

[Leon]

Growth only need be painful if you take that route.. You can learn just as much at a distance.. You can observe the effects of drugs or alcohol on another, and see that it does not have a beneficial effect.. You can watch someone put their hand in a fire and see it get burned.. There is no need to get your hands dirty if you contemplate actions.. They all have consequences just think things through first..

[101]

In my experience alone the suffering I experienced was an absolute necessary part of "THIS" life to reopen my heart to LOVE which is the elemental 'feeling' that I refer to as GOD or Spirit.

Each circumstance I found myself in that I could peg as 'bad' was really only another chance for GOD to give me the same circumstances to see if the choices I made would be correct that time around. Each choice I made actually was a step in bringing me closer to that reopening of my heart, and my connection with the creator.

I realized that it was my action or inaction that would determine if I was being too slow at learning while repeating the same mistakes. I would eventually get the "ole two by four" upside the head with GOD on the other end of it. GOD gives us what we need, not what we want. All of my suffering was done however, due to what I refused to acknowledge as a Spiritual blockage in my life at that time.

Finally after enough 'suffering' I realized the suffering was my inability to release control of the events surrounding my life to a higher intelligence than anything I can attempt to describe. I came to acceptance that sometimes people move apart, others come and go, possessions possess us, and everything in this 'physical' world is created to move me emotionally downward into negative states of being to prevent me from connecting with GOD/SOURCE.

With this knowledge I began to see how my ego would trick me into creating situations in my head concerning many things in my life. In fact most of my torment was my inability to act to improve the situation, or doing the work on myself to see that it was my inability to yield when in ego to another that only escalated situations,anytime I had ever been in conflict.

I now demonstrate this power to defuse any situation knowing as long as I stay in my heart and connected with the energy that is GOD, I will see through any attempt to control me emotionally. This included no longer living in the subconscious fear of another individual making any choice for me by emotionally manipulating me into it. This is liberation once you can see first how you have been emotionally manipulated by this world, accepting it as a TRUTH, and never let any circumstance let me react to negative events, but flow with them as GOD giving me a nudge I am yet to understand. Time is not linear though, so that 'event' that seemed bad will eventually be the catalyst for my next spiritual discovery.

There does come a time after acceptance and release of the need to control anything that a true PEACE comes. This is the Peace one finds beyond all Peace, that resides deep in our core, that spark of GOD within that lets me know we are all connected and one heart. I now understand that when I see anger in others, I am only seeing the pain that is so intense for that person that they cannot process it inward. I no longer see people as adversaries, but lost brothers and sisters on their own path GOD has planned for them, that are not conscious of how their words and actions effect others.

This is the start of Compassion....Now I could go on, but the point I am making is that all of the emotional ranges are going to be a part of this experience for anyone who is seeking greater spiritual autonomy at this time. This is a time for emotionally cleansing old wounds that were never meant to be stored as negative energy in the body. These releases are part of what the new agers call 'awakening'. To me this term is massly misused and if used by a 'group' chances are they are speaking of consciousness. That's good, but this change has little to do with consciousness unless the SPIRITUAL is addressed first. We are having help at this time, but not from anything on Earth claiming to raise vibrations or anything like that.

Those souls that are ready will begin to be "re-born' in the physical first as a spiritual based person with no egoic need to control others, but with the desire to only serve their fellow creation in any way shown by creator. So the 'suffering' spoken of for me was also needed by me in looking back to gain empathy and understanding for those in situations I judged before. My pain is like a book of knowledge I carry with me, no longer hurting me, but transmuted into compassion for others.

I cannot speak for another, but for me in this reality, suffering is only necessary until the individual decides it is not...