Is spirituality the answer.

[mojomojo]

About four years ago, I remember watching the television, the evening news was on, where I witnessed a large group of people outside what must have been a polling station or some government building.
The crowd consisted of mainly women, young and old, I was quite surprised how many elderly women were present.
They were triumphant, jumping and dancing, smiling and laughing, cheers of joy rang out.
Standing there watching this, I felt an anger rise up from the depths of my core, I didn’t understand why I was becoming so angry.
Then a thought came into my head, why are so many elderly woman celebrating this, it doesn’t even apply to them anymore, then came another thought, it has nothing to do with what has just happened, it was a celebration of a vote, that women saw as a victory against male repression, and I felt it was a very sad day for mankind.
That day the Irish government made it legal for women to have abortions in Ireland.
The reasons were many, they would go to the U.K. mainland to have it done anyway, it’s a woman’s right to control what happens to her body.
I probably have no right to judge, my past has many dark eposides, I don’t claim to be a saint, but something about people celebrating the right to end a life, made me very angry.

As I thought over all the reasons been put forward to validate this ruling, I came to the conclusion, all these things put in place are to deal with the result, the problem is not been dealt with at the core.
I wondered, am I been far too simplistic, am I been ridiculous in my even considering.
If I remember correctly does it not state in some religious text, that the purpose of sex was to procreate and nothing else.
Again I’am as guilty as anyone, and my intention is not to point the finger.
But if the scriptures were followed, wouldn’t it remove all these methods to deal with the results.

Again discussing such a topic often brings the answer with mocking laughter, you can’t expect people nowadays to not engage in sex.
Is that another way of saying, we have drifted so far from the path, there is no point.
Hence the question, could spirituality if it was followed genuinely, solve a lot of todays problems?

mojo.

[gruntal]

A short reply: I grew up as a kid witnessing the saga of Sherri Finkbine. Later Hollywood movies like DIRTY DANCING gained much sympathy. As a firm believer in reincarnation and taught that by the Rosicrucians I may have a less then traditional interpretation of life and transition ( death ).

By I also observe that morals, unlike spirituality, is not about how "advanced" you are. 1 Corinthians 13.

[mojomojo]

I would have thought that morals and spirituality go hand in hand, regardless of any advancement or not.

[gruntal]

Until you ascend you are struggling for balance. That works on many levels.

[mojomojo]

Do I take it then, that you have ascended.

[hera]

This is a tough one and yes mojomojo, the taking of a life is seen by most as repugnant, but this topic is big again with Texas ruling that there should be no terminations regardless of the circumstances or conditions, so we are debating it again.

As with all things banned by people who take the moral high ground, there are ways and means to secure what a person finds necessary in their own individual life path (smoking, drinking etc.) and women, as so often, are the ones who pay the price for a moments sexual pleasure. Back street abortions will almost certainly become commonplace or, as you pointed out, travel to a different state or country the norm, so I can understand why those women were celebrating the freedom to choose what happens to them and their bodies


I have little doubt if men were the receptacles for unborn babies this topic would never have become so clouded with judgement about morality.
All pregnancies should be allowed to continue to fruition 'they' say - rape (can you imagine the trauma of carrying a rapists baby), potential or even likely deformities which would cause untold unhappiness and distress to the mother and child, any number of tragic events which would perpetuate suffering in this world should be morally right and legally mandated. Not very spiritual in my eyes.

My beliefs are that agreements are made before we enter this life and those babies were well aware they wouldn't be born, but were performing an act of service to mankind and those involved in extremely difficult situations for the advancement and evolution or mankind.

Oh and if we followed the scriptures, all women would have long hair (the day I was told I was sinning because I'd had my hair cut short was the day I saw how patriarchal the church is and walked, never to return)

This is a very emotive topic and I'm certain many will disagree with me, but that's ok, we all are all learning lessons.

Sorry if this is a little chaotic I'm very tired, but my views remain the same.

[mojomojo]

Hello Hera,
You make some very good points, and I do understand your point of view.
My point is not whether it should be allowed or not, there are many reasons why it probably should, if a medical problem puts the mothers life at risk, in the case of rape, and I’m sure there are more.
What annoyed me, was the celebratory cheers for the right to do so, even by women of an age where it didn’t apply to them anymore, which brought forth the question, was it a celebratory victory for womens rights or a victory against repression.
When two countries go to war, people on both sides are killed, it’s a horrible state of affairs, but would you celebrate when you get one of the opposition.
As you mentioned rape, I do know someone who was raped by her father, gave birth and brought the child up as her own, so I’m not completely on board with unborn babies choose this before they came in.
Again the point of the post, was given the age of some of the women, did the vote go through, more so, on account of repression down through the ages.

Mojo.

[hera]

Sorry for misunderstanding you mojo, I'll use fatigue as my excuse

Yes I believe those women were celebrating the right of women to choose and let's be honest we haven't had many rights through history so their age was irrelevant, it was a demonstration of victory for all women not being oppressed by the patriarchy and having freedom to live their lives on their own terms.

[gruntal]

As an aside: ascension is a multi faceted state of being. Basically you experience everything but go one step beyond: you combine it into a one. I was hoping I could wait at least a thousand years before being a girl ( eek ) so that may move my ascension schedule back a bit. Now I look at life more logically and unemotionally. I was even told I need to learn compassion.

[mojomojo]

May I ask you a question as regards this in the states.
You said this topic was up for debate in Texas, is it been pushed through in other states as well.
Is Texas predominately white or a mixture of races.

[hera]

I am unsure of your belief system Gruntal, so may I ask whether you believe you have never incarnated as a woman?

I didn't quite understand this 'Basically you experience everything but go one step beyond: you combine it into a one'.
Would you mind giving a brief explanation?

[mojomojo]

Back to the question of sex.
The reason I asked if spirituality was the answer to some of life’s problems, stemmed purely from the fact, that as one travels down the spiritual path, certain human traits fall away.
Among these are anger and the ability to conduct violence on another, sex is also something that falls away.
This is seen in priesthoods, where everyone is meant to be celibate, unfortunately putting someone in this position before they are ready, results in perverism, as has also been seen in priesthoods.

[hera]

Jun 22, 2022 19:58:01 GMT mojomojo said:

May I ask you a question as regards this in the states.
You said this topic was up for debate in Texas, is it been pushed through in other states as well.
Is Texas predominately white or a mixture of races.

I needed to google this and here's a quick link with some info - www.dailytrib.com/2021/08/13/texas-now-more-demographically-diverse-2020-census-count-shows/ 

One thing I have noticed recently is that American society seems to have a much larger Christian population (my boyfriend is American) than here in the UK and they are quite staunch in their views which reflects why the abortion issue has become so divisive I guess

[hera]

Jun 22, 2022 20:07:34 GMT mojomojo said:

Back to the question of sex.
The reason I asked if spirituality was the answer to some of life’s problems, stemmed purely from the fact, that as one travels down the spiritual path, certain human traits fall away.
Among these are anger and the ability to conduct violence on another, sex is also something that falls away.
This is seen in priesthoods, where everyone is meant to be celibate, unfortunately putting someone in this position before they are ready, results in perverism, as has also been seen in priesthoods.

Which would seem to  indicate that these men of the cloth are religious but not necessarily spiritual.  Quite a big difference I think

[donq]

Hi Robert,

I' sure when Gruntal mentioned, how advanced "you" are; and "Until you ascend" he meant what he was quoting.

Believe me, I misread "you" like this before, many time.
Have to go now.
later

[gruntal]

To clarify some things based on my own slight past life regressions and teachings of the Rosicrucians and the Rose Brotherhood:

I have been told of me in the past and no matter who is doing the channeling I see certain paths good or bad but never is anything mentioned I was a wife with kids. I commonly had jobs or careers but just staying at home or even going out to do charitable work like Mother Teresa is never mentioned. But that only includes the reality we are inhabiting now and using to post here.

Next: this isn't really some esoteric secret but is brief to the point of being cryptic: : Why is there a SON of God but no DAUGHTER of God? Is it sacrilege to elevate Mary to Jesus? Hint: the two might be one and the same at the highest level. But as recorded or observed they were at our Earthly level and we just had to separate the two.

[donq]

Hi Everyone,

It turns out that my urgent task has been put off and I just have enough time to read the whole thread.

I apologize in advance if what I’m going to say might bore you. This might be the only way I could say about this topic. So, please bear with me.

Yesterday I saw a little (hairy) caterpillar walking on my yard. I used a dustpan, gently shove it up and dropped it on some spot away. I was not that so good person. I didn't kill it just because it would harder to clean the yard later. And I shoved it away because I didn't want to clean my shoes in case I happened to step on it without knowing.
Some minutes later, I saw another caterpillar. While I was trying to shove it up, it stopped moving. That showed me it was the very same caterpillar.
If even that very little caterpillar still knew how to react because it loved its life, I believe a fetus might feel the same, no matter how science tells us. And a fetus is a lot bigger than caterpillar, isn't it?
However, Back to the real world. What will happen if abortion is not legal? They will find the way to do it illegal anyway. And what will happen to a child who grows up with the parents who didn't want him in the first place? (Hera already gave very excellent points above).
Let me tell you what I witnessed. One of my (spiritual) friends I met in the forest temple was a disabled man who got a village girl pregnant (which was not so spiritual at all). Though the girl told everyone she loved him, the villagers (I kind of got their highly respects there) still warned me he should not marry her. No one dared to mention abortion. They were very old-fashioned Buddhists and believed it was a very serious sin. That time I still was so into spirituality, and was so native about worldly/material world, I still supported my friend to get his marriage. I believe I don't need to tell you how bad it ended, right? This happened almost 40 years ago and I still consider it was one of the biggest mistakes in my life.

Back to your question, Robert:
"...could spirituality, if it was followed genuinely, solve a lot of today's problems?"

I know you know my honest answer is (from the real story I told you above). And why don't I just say it out loud here? Let me quote from one of my favorite TV series instead:

"I've spent my entire life studying the human body, and I can say with scientific certainty that what keeps us alive, more important than blood or oxygen or even love...
is hope."

[mojomojo]

Hello everyone,
thank you Hera for the link, the reason I asked those questions was a result of what I read some where.
This could be absolute nonsense, I have no idea, but the article suggested, that the powers that be in the states has predicted in the foreseeable future that white people would be in the minority, hence the reason for the clamp down on terminating pregnancies.
This might also suggest that white people avail of these services more so than other races, again I have no idea, and as I have said it could all be nonsense.

As regards priests, I grew up in Ireland, born in the early sixties when the church had a stranglehold on the country.
The Catholic Church had more power than the government, and ran the schooling system.
I have seen first hand the carry on of these people, during the five years I spent in this school, there were two paedophile priests, who later on in life were both sent to jail for their crimes, one committed suicide. These people are neither religious or spiritual, some joined the priesthood as an easy job, back then Irish people still had to emigrate for work, others joined for access to children and maybe some had an interest in religion, but in my five years there I never met a religious or spiritual one.
I have no respect for any priest, based purely on the fact, if they were not involved, they still said nothing and looked the other way.
Evil people get away with what they do, because those close to them, turn a blind eye.

[mojomojo]

Hi Monty,
we all make mistakes in life, big bloody huge ones.
I guess we can only ask ourselves, would we make the same mistakes now, if not, that has to be counted as progress.

[donq]

Hi Robert,

Yes, very true. Thanks.

And if we come back a bit to what you were trying to say on this thread, here is my example:

The first time (many years ago) I heard that quote from the movie (about hope), I was thrilled. And from Goethe? Wow!
Anyway, after I did some search, it turned out that Goethe never said that! It was just made up for that movie. In other words, it was fake.
Maybe this is similar to the topic we were talking about. Yes, it's fake. Then, why don't we just "kill" it? Because it still gives some hope to the world, more or less.