Do Not Let The World Make You Hard

[sparklekaz]

Dear friends,

Today I read a quote by Kurt Vonnegut, where he says “Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness. Take pride that even though the rest of the world may disagree, you still believe it to be a beautiful place”. This really resonated with me. We have had many conversations here on this forum, and in our chat room, about our lives and difficult experiences. It would be so easy wouldn't it, to allow those experiences to 'spoil' future relationships we have with other's or how we view the world in general. Sadly, there are people who give up, and retreat into themselves and away from the world. Rather than run the risk of being hurt again. Or worse, become the type of person who hurt them in the first place.

Some people will feel a deep and burning desire to get even with those who have hurt them. Particularly those individuals who appear to have carried on with their lives unaffected by what they have done. Whilst they, who have been emotionally injured by it, cannot. This is where the anger and resentment come in. Often inducing the sufferer to seek some kind of retribution or revenge. They believe that in seeking to make someone else suffer, it will alleviate their own suffering. When in truth, it rarely does. Instead the individual is often left feeling worse. In as much as they feel no relief from their emotional pain. Except now on top of that, is a sense of shame that they have allowed their bitterness to reduce them as human beings. To bring them to the same level of poor behaviour, as the one who hurt them in the first place. They become no better.

Nelson Mandela said, "As I walked out the door towards the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I would forever be in prison" Here was a man who had more reason than anyone to rage against the world and the people who were responsible for his incarceration and ill treatment. But he did not. I suppose you could say that this spoke volumes about the kind of man he already was. But I do believe that in the solitude of his confinement, he had plenty of time to dwell on his life, to reflect and understand the chain of events that led to his inprisonment. To understand that revenge and retribution only lead to more suffering. And that the only way forward had to be done in the spirit of reconciliation and love.

I would love to hear what your thoughts are on this.

Love and light
Kaz

[gruntal]

I sort of had this list and it was rather long but quite detailed. No actual punishment was mentioned. Over the years the list had to be revised mostly due to death and attrition. Not to mention it wasn't much good without me as I was apparently the main player and at times it seems I was also was about to be removed from the list due to sickness or old age. But I was a survivor!

Sometimes that is the trouble with the revenge thingie. It becomes so static. It doesn't seem to mature. It works best when frequently nurtured. Doesn't a wound hurt as much fifty years later or much more? No? Is numbness setting in? Then hurry up and get even because time is running out.

I can picture myself saving up for the grand finale; years of training and exercise: when my turn comes for pay back I will have strength in abundance. The retribution will surely be a testament to my pains and slights. So behold your judgement! You thought you could escape my wrath?

And what better way to betray my pettiness in exacting it after so many years when I could have gone on with my life and just forgotten what it was like to be so small and vindictive ....


Come to think of it I did - and many things just don't mean as much to me as they once did. That is the trouble with growing up. It can take a LOT to throw you off course. More then it used to.

[donq]

Hi Kaz,

Very good post. I'll be back to this later.

[donq]

Hi Karen,

This will be related to our posts on the thread "4 and 8", too.

Let me quote from yours here again:

“Dare I say that there is also an element of ego involved. As if by giving in to the pain and getting help implies weakness and failure.”

I’m thinking about the “white” ego in three different ways.

The first kind of white ego
For (real) example. My (older) brother has had with his new wife for more than 10 years. As he was a workaholic so no one knew or even suspected about this. My mother and I just have known it less than 3 years AFTER we met his new wife. He lied to everyone. And his excuse was he didn’t want to hurt his kids about this, for the sake of them. But really? Though he might legally divorced his first wife 10 years ago, but still didn't totally move out from that house. And why he had to lie about this? His kids now are adult, more than 25 y/o, which means 10 years ago they were already teenagers and could handle about this, could they not? I believe this is a white ego as it’s not the case of an obvious bad person. Because he never failed to support so much money for his ex and his kids. He has taken care of my mother very well. He even helped me from time to time.

The second kind
I’ve known some good wives (villagers) who could bear with their (bad) husbands in any circumstances. Let me give you an example. She got her payment about 1 pound a day for her hard labor in a field. And when she came home, her husband who had no job snatched all money from her hands everyday and went out to buy a booze. Come on, they had little kids to feed! She never thought that divorce was the (only) option. Was she a good person? Maybe yes. But that still was not good enough, wasn't it? She should think about herself and her kids, too. She thought if she did/could not embrace her (mental) pain, that only meant she was weak and not a good person? Worse than that, this was the veil of her weakness?

The third kind of white ego
There are some paragraphs from my favorite Chinese (martial arts and chivalry) novel that really move me every time I read it. I’ll try to translate it here:

“Right and wrong are hard to tell. Just keeping your heart easy and as pure as the bright moon. Rumors/hearsay that are wildly spoken cannot justify what really right and wrong are.”

“There are many real high-level spiritual persons in the world. But most of them always hide themselves in the huts, temples and forests; searching for their own nirvana; enjoying their prayer, meditation and peacefulness by/for themselves alone. None of them want to get their hands dirty, to come out and trying to make this world better. Hence that task comes to the hands of someone who are brave enough to right the wrong things. They involve themselves in every unfair business, to help fixing it. All their lives, they don’t have enough time for enjoying their resting or peaceful lives, eating only bad food; trying to make this world a little bit better. And what did they get? Only making more and more enemies. Some lost their freedom (imprisonment), lost everything or even their lives. And no one cares to help them about their unfairness at all.”

I’ll leave it to you to interpret it. Anyway, I think the reason why they still doing this because:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

(the famous quote of Edmund Burke)

Hmm…ok. A little bit about my opinion. I truly believe that they are the real good persons even they never talked anything about spiritual stuff at all. And their motivations always are misunderstood as their egos. While those high-level spiritual persons who never wanted to get their hands dirty, seem to have less egos. Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not. However, I think the latter somehow still involve their “white” egos. Though I know the real situations might be much more complicated than this. Maybe living the peaceful lives in seclusion are the ways for some persons? I honestly don’t know.

[Ishtahota]

In my life the pain and the suffering has given me an understanding of life and of myself that I could not have gotten any other way. Jesus and the Buddah both pictured the world as a place of unending sorrow, yet both also said that tragidy always remains a half truth, that the universe seen as a whole brings joy and peace. Nietzsche wrote of embracing existance so completely, with such total ecstatic honesty, that we would gladly repeat, endlessly, every moment of our lives, whatever the pain.
I myself have not reached that point yet in my life, but I have seen and understood how pain and suffering can drive me to places in my understanding of life that I could not reach otherwish. My enemies and my advisaries have taught me more about myself and my true nature then anyone else ever could. I always tell people that when they learn to love the (AFGE)= (Another F*cking Growth Experience) that will have what it takes to really grow in spiritual ways.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

You've raised some very interesting points here, about the motivation behind people's actions. Your examples about why in some cases people choose to lie for the greater good (in their minds) or choose to endure a very difficult situation or relationship for what they perceive as being the 'lesser evil'(in their minds). A lot of it has to do with how they have been brought up, there morals and religious/cultural beliefs. Many women are taught that the marriage, their husbands are the master of the home. To be a good wife is to obey and endure, because that is her place and marriage is for life. Her own personal happiness is of no consequence or to think of her own emotional and phusical needs is selfish. To walk away from the marriage would bring shame upon her and the breakdown of the family unit would cause pain and often finanical hardship. So the needs of the many, outweigh the need of the one. And this is why I believe many women and men wait, until their children are older and independent before leaving.

It sounds to me Monty, as if your brother was ashamed to tell your parents he'd split up from his first wife. He did not want them to be disappointed in him. He sounds a successful man, a man like this would maybe perceive his marriage breaking down as a personal failure. Successful people, do not like to feel they have failed at anything do they! I also think people are fooling themselves if they think that there loved ones cannot see that things are not right. That there is a problem. They wait, hoping for the truth to be told. People will say, 'I didn't want to upset my parents or the children'. I lied, or omitted to tell the truth to protect them. The truth is I think, that they lie, to protect themselves, their ego, their pride.

We could discuss the pro's and con's of this and whether or not staying in a bad place or difficult situation no matter what, can ultimately do more harm than good. As in, 'is the message you want your own children to learn, one of allowing other's to treat them badly no matter what for the sake of status or moral ostracization. For today many people do still very much disapprove of divorce. In the eyes of the catholic church it is still regarded as a sin, and a divorcee would be at worst, excommunicated, at best not allowed to receive the sacraments. Which to a devout Catholic would be a terrible thing. I remember my own mother who was not particularly religious, as in she did not go to church regularly, being very upset at being told she could not receieve holy communion, because she was divorced. She had been in an abusive marriage for 14 years and had ended it when she could not endure it any longer. She had not acted before, for our sakes, not wanting to split the family up.

In many ways I wish she had done it when we were younger, as to grow up in such a volitile household and to see what we saw. The violence, to me was far worse then being the children of divorced parents. But that is another story. Back to the church thing. As the innocant party as she saw herself in the breakdown of her marriage, she felt she was being punished for not being strong enough to stay in that situation. Some might say that people divorce too easily these days. And maybe there is an arguement for that in some cases. But for the most part, I feel that allowing people to walk away or be free of something that is very damaging to the 'whole family' is a good thing.

I thought you made an interesting observation Monty about those who choose to retreat from the world to focus on their spiritual life. I do believe that it is within life and the many experiences it brings, via family, work, all our social interactions that we are given the most fertile opportunities for spiritual growth. I can't help but think, it is easy to stay away from temptation, to work on aspects of ego or to practice peaceful mindfulness in solitude. Indeed, how do these mystics know that they would be able to maintain or practice this way of life, if they had to live 'in the real world'. For lets face it, it is not a natural part of life to live in isolation.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi Karen,

First, I have to say I kind of like this thread a lot as everyone seemed to have heavy meanings, especially you. Heavy meanings but so good to read.

As for my brother, you were more than right. Though it’s said a dark spot on the white sheet seems to be too much obvious than a white spot on the black sheet. But is that true? Somehow I honestly believe that no matter how my brother is a good son to his (my) mother, a good father to his kids, a good ex to his ex, and a good brother to me, all of these could not justify his lie. Lie is a lie. Always. More than that, what’s about his present wife’s feelings? How does she feel about this? That’s the point, is it not?

I wrote ten short stories in my life. Six of them were published. The following story (just very brief here) was one of the four that wasn’t published. lol.

It was a heavy raining day. A paddling boat was carrying 5 persons: a paddler, a girl and her baby, an old man and a young man. When the boat reached the middle of the river, it was keeled over and capsized by a big wave. Everyone fell into the river. The paddler was swimming away to save only his ars* first. The old man could only try to floating. The young man dived twice and came back with the girl and her baby. He shouted to the old man to come to help him carry them. The old man could not. He was old, weak and not a good swimmer. Suddenly, he vaguely saw a boat on a shore not so far away. He decided to swim toward it as fast as he could, to come back with that boat to save them all. The young man misunderstood about this and condemned and cursed him, “You selfish basta**!” When the old man reached the shore, the rain stopped, but he saw nothing there. No boat! And when he looked back on the river, no one was there. Everyone already drowned!

My questions:

1. If we were in this situation, what we should do to save ourselves and others?
2. Is the spiritual goal something like that? Only a trick to save us from a situation that somehow we could not survive? The paddler who wanted to save only himself might drown somewhere in the river, but the old man could survive this just because (let’s say that) God gave him extraordinary strength. He had a spiritual purpose to come back to help others, not only himself like the paddler.

This kind of situation really happened in Buddhism. Hence there were Mahayana (the young man) and Theravada (the old man). Mahayana maxim “If I not go to hell (to help the lost souls), who would?” Theravada maxim, “How could I help others if I’m still not strong enough to help even myself?”
I have studied and practiced both and respect them equally. And I really don’t know what the answer is.

[donq]

Hi Karen,

As you are already familiar with "A burnt child dreads the fire" or "Once bitten twice shy". The followings are from other countries.

“Once bitten by a snake, one is scared for ten years at the mere sight of a (wet) rope.”
-Chinese proverb

"He who was once chased by a tiger will be frightened at the sight of a painting of a tiger".
-Japanese proverb

When someone got hurt by the world (by people in it and or natural disaster), what is his basic defensive mechanism? To fight or flight, right? Anyway, he still has to deal with his PTSD (posttraumatic stress disorder), too, more or less.

Hmm…ok, to make our discussion more vivid, let’s put me as a victim. Urh…I mean an example. Yes, that sounds a lot better.
After my relationships crashed badly twice, how could I have heart to find a new one? I might fight “too much” (or too picky to be real) to create it or flight from it for the rest of my life, right? Worse than that, as the Italian proverb (I think) below:

“He who is scalded by hot water will be afraid of coldness, too.”

After I got burnt by hot water, now I’m afraid of cold water too? Am I afraid not only relationship but also any kind of connectedness (friendship etc.) because of my PTSD?

But there’s still another way, a spiritual one, to live in the world but not conflicting with it. I mean, if I could really find a true one, it’s ok. If not, it’s still ok. I honestly don’t feel the different now. Maybe because I’m too old for this? Hahaha. Lucky me.

Yes, as Kurt Vonnegut put it so well, “Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate.”

My point is that, spiritual is a must for this. As you said, someone really give up and become the type of person who hurt them in the first place. Why? Because they might not know anything about spirituality. And that’s why they might feel a deep and burning desire to get even with those who have hurt them or even with all people in the world! They want others to feel the same pain they got. They cannot bear with others happiness. And this is very unreasonable in spiritual sense. As the first person who would get burnt by the fire is the one who is holding it. Who is the first person who feel cool/calm if the fire in your heart is distinguished? Yourself! And the person who will benefit first from the giving is the one who is willing to give it to others first.

Anyway, there’s always an exception. Did Buddha ever kill someone? Yes, he did. By walking away from them. He had to. There was no other way. Someone were really like the never grown lotus that always loved to live only in their mud, underwater.

What I’m trying to say is a true spirituality also means we have to walk away from someone, in some cases, too. We cannot change anyone, even for helping them. They have to do it by themselves first and foremost. This is very complicated stuff. Did we walk away from them because it was the only way, or because of our egos? No one could tell except ourselves.

As for "the pro's and con's of saying or not saying something in a hard place or difficult situation no matter what, can ultimately do more harm than good" as you mentioned on your last post, I do understand it. Living in the world without conflicting with it also means we must know how to use some good tactics, too. As I used to mention it somewhere before, when I lived in the forest temple, I also was a (only) teacher of 40-50 pre-school kids. Some of them loved to play near the (handmade) artesian well. No matter how I explained to them about the danger of falling into it, none of my students ever listened. Then, one day, all of them never dared to come close to it again! After one old woman (villager) told them that there was a kid-eaten devil in that well. Hahaha. Her lie was ok in this case? Maybe. Because there was no way to make those kids understand its danger at their age. But the most important thing was, the lie was not for herself but the kids. That was the very point.

If my brother lied for protecting his kids, it probably was ok. But did he? Why could anyone tell if he didn’t lie for just protecting himself?

I also know very well about the danger of telling something when it’s not the right time to tell. It would only make every thing goes worse. And Buddha said, speaking only the truth: real, right, correct and beneficial one, no matter it would be please or not please others. But most of all, having to say only it at the right time.

P.S. I type this without stopping. My thought seemed to be unstoppable for a while. Sorry for any errors.
P.P.S. Just found my old photo, around 10 years ago. That time I didn’t need any glasses yet. But after I passed my 50, well, it has become a must. Hahaha.

[hemantm]

In life pain and suffering will let you to follow new path and also better understanding of life. As to overcome from pain and suffering is not so easy it needs lots of efforts and also strong willpower.

[sparklekaz]

I agree with you Hemantm. Pain and suffering can be our teachers. But I also believe that joy and happiness can teach us things too. For me I try to see the lessons that all my experiences and feelings have to show me.

Thank you for sharing

Love and light
Kaz

[mojomojo]

Hi all, I think to be surrounded by violence, and to not let it, change you, takes great strength. In my earlier years, I was a happy go lucky kid, not a violent thought in my head, but my circumstances changed, my situation became violent, mental and physical, and even though you detest what these people do and there is not a violent streak in your body, over time, I feel you will change, I myself became that which I detested, even though it went against my very being. If you can not move away from it, it becomes survival. Eventually, I reached the stage, where I shut myself off from everyone, I had enough, I was still a kid, I spent countless hours everyday, locked in my bedroom, focused on one point, I knew nothing about meditation, I did not talk to anyone, I suppose it was a semi-solitary life as such, but every day, focused on that point, even sitting in pitch darkness, focused on that point. This went on for months, I had reached a point where nobody could touch me, I had gone that deep inside, nothing else was of importance, I could still see people and was aware of them, but they could not touch me, maybe reach me is a better word here. One day, I. Got up and walked out of that room, a different person, I had totally connected with who I was, and had a feeling of calmness and total well being.
I understand people's view of the great mystics and saints who have taken the solitary life, is it the easy way out, not getting your hands dirty, maybe.
Personally, I believe, these people become tired of the ego, and no longer want to deal with ego, they renounce materialism, live in solitude, and without interruption try to stay connected with spirit. It is my belief, that when ego is dealing with ego, there will always be conflict. The life they choose is not an easy life, and their main aim is to reach total connection with the divine, so as to increase their vibratory level, so that a critical mass is reached, that lifts the vibratory level of all mankind. So yes in the short term, it looks like they turn their back , but they sacrifice everything for the benefit of mankind, long term. Mother Theresa summed it up perfectly, when she was asked, if she was going to attend the anti-war rally, she replied, anti-war rally, show me where the peace rally is, and I will go to that.

[tribunalofmercy]

I wonder if there are really any people out there whose life-experience has All been positive? Truly? I'd like to meet one, just to see what he/she is Like. Yet not everyone has turned out 'hardened' to life, no matter What the circumstance; we can find people here and there that are just 'Open' people. Oh, they have scars - they just take regular Baths and use lotions

When I was a small child I did Not like to take baths; haha, there were times I would do Anything to avoid coming into the house and getting clean. (for one thing, I was allergic to most soaps and bubbles, but no one found that out, until Later). Anyway, what we all Noticed was, the longer I went without bathing, the harder it became to wash to dirt off! Seriously (stop laughing out there)

Not that we must shower or bathe all the time, but is it not a truth that regular washing helps make it easier to get Clean?   So it is, with those things that might make us hard, in life.   The problems that we pack away inside get harder to Deal with, if we do not 'wash ourselves' with methods of self-love, forgiveness, meditation and prayer...things we Need to do, regularly, else we get to the point that our scars become harder to wash off.


These are good thoughts to look back on, Karen - another one I am glad you wrote.

[mojomojo]

I wonder if there are really any people out there whose life experience have been all positive,

Depends how you look at it,
I can look back at mine, and honestly say, wasn't it all perfect to get me, to where I'am now.

I will go as far as to say, that everyone's life is perfect for them, at any particular stage in  their life.
What makes it positive or negative, is whether we resist it or go with the flow, but it is always perfect for where we are.



Robert.

[baangus]

Feb 19, 2015 19:25:35 GMT mojomojo said:

What makes it positive or negative, is whether we resist it or go with the flow, but it is always perfect for where we are.

So good it must be re-stated!