The Pains and Joy of Being a Predator

[gruntal]

So many distractions in the spiritual life. " The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". But I think there is a philosophical point here much missed. Some think naively the young are naturally spiritual and fall away from the practice as they grow up. Or society trains it out of them.

So why is it so hard to do things if it supposedly comes naturally? Is becoming an adult desirable or just a disease?

One obvious answer is those five senses we have that are always pestering us but are also easy to make use of. So picking up a wrench and screw driver; reading a book; even talking are tools we develop because we were built that way. If that is sinful then that might explain why the concept of even portraying a body is vain and an affront to God. The preacher may tell you to throw away your crutches and walk well but taken to it's ultimate conclusion what does that really mean? To die and discard the body as yet another crutch you need to outgrow?

And you wonder why the Christians teach being born is really a death sentence. Or why some cults end in mass suicide.

I think any thing we do long enough becomes "second nature" to us and becomes our personal dogma. Anything. In reality all is one. We read then we learn to have visions. That is good as far as it goes but that still isn't the way to go. Ultimately we just know things. They sort of pop into our head. Until then all we can do is use what we have to get what we don't. That works on many levels.

Like most I make promises. To spend more time in my sanctum. Or go to church more. Or read the Bible regularly. But what should be a commitment segues into a punishment. Or just an obligation. I think then it doesn't hurt to just forget it. Be the decedent reprobate you always secretly dreamed of.

Just remember the hunger is what never goes away. No matter how scared or ashamed we are the light beckons because we thirst for it.

[mojomojo]

Why is it, that it always seems to be those less well off, or those down on their luck, or those that always seem to be at odds with life, who are the ones to look inward. Is been poor or down and out a prerequisite to joining the spiritual ranks.
Many say spirituality is for those who are not capable of dealing with this life, and no matter which side of the fence we stand, there is some truth in that. It is a given that certain spiritual practices disarm us as regards this reality, but that seems to be the trick, to live in this reality but not a part of it.
This correlation seems to work on a larger scale also, the poorer the country the more wide spread spirituality, its hard sell something you do not have.
But at least Jesus remained true, dining with the poor, I wonder if thats why these visions and moving statues always seem to happen in small poverty ridden villages, in the middle of nowhere.
Funny how those well off never hunger for anything, other than more food.

[gruntal]

"There are no atheists in the foxholes; there are no Christians in the supermarkets". That is a cynical generalization but there are TWO lessons we need to learn: ( 1 ) the knowledge ( 2 ) the wisdom to use it. Arrogance you don't need to learn - it comes very naturally! At one level we do not have "gifts"; we just realize what we are. But at another level we must earn our "gifts" to make sure we won't misuse them or take them for granted. Which segues back to the predator instinct - it is tempting to steal the "gifts" from those that have them but don't seem to appreciate what they have. A true mark of a MASTER is to accept all will come to you in it's appropriate time and place.

[aceofcups]

Hi.. can't say I always agree with some of generalized comments made on this thread... because SOME poorer people do have a greater spiritual connection but certainly not all... some wallow in their suffering.   Being their own greatest enemy energetically wise in helping themselves and others.

Then the opposite is totally equally true... I have met many compassionate well-off and financial secure individuals who are very dedicated to their spiritual life and healing and helping others.

only reason I am writing this is because we should realize that generalizing doesn't always work out to be true in deeper spiritual sense.

[gruntal]

There was a long held argument for colonization that certain groups of people were rather begging to be dominated - for their own good. A more esoteric explanation was that people more accustomed to the simple if not primitive would by choice be born in third world countries where they wouldn't need to study rocket science. It has even been suggested I.Q. 75 types are actually usually a happy lot relieved of the responsibility to think and be productive and that is what they wanted before birth. And also deprived of the power to dominate. Was the borderline mental retard next door living the sheltered life the mean evil ruler of the world in a past life?

All I know is I am hearing a lot of confessions lately of people that succumbed to arrogance upon obtaining "gifts". Chalk up another enigma to the wonderful world of spirituality: we obtain what we want only to agonize if we are misusing it. Better to be the lion or tiger and just never have to worry if the sacrificial lamb deserved to be your lunch ....or why you were even born the predator in the first place!

[donq]

Hi Gruntal,

You said, "Some think naively the young are naturally spiritual and fall away from the practice as they grow up. Or society trains it out of them. So why is it so hard to do things if it supposedly comes naturally? Is becoming an adult desirable or just a disease?"

Your question reminds me of what someone said , "a centipede who does well unconsciously with its 100 legs but is in trouble if it consciously tries to coordinate them."
I believe there's some process there (as you already mentioned that "any thing we do long enough becomes 'second nature'").
Let's be a centipede here. -)
At first, a baby centipede might not know how to walk with those many legs as they are not grew one by one but all at once. I think the right word here would be "conditioning"? To learn to manage those 100 legs, it has created a condition to that centipede (like Pavlov's Dogs). The point is learning (conditioning) could got sidetracked. It might be okay if Pavlov's Dogs have saliva every time they see food. But it's not if they see something else, like (dogs' ) nude. If someone says having saliva after seeing nude are natural and the right conditioning, then we are talking about the different contexts (will talk about it below).
Here spirituailty comes to play. If we have conditioned ourselves to get angry too easily, we need something to uncondition it, right? I believe getting angry (lust, envy, ignorance etc.) are not the right conditioning. It's just something we have conditioned ourselves in the wrong way. The right (and natural) conditioning should be about to learn and to grow more, in the right way. Not in the wrong way. (Sure, right and wrong depend on so different opinions). A mature man should not angry so easily. Only a youth/naive/inexperience is. And if we have conditioned our 100 legs for so long, once we tried consciously to manage them, everything might look like hell. We even asked ourselves if this was the right/natural way. Some of us thought it was the wrong way and stopped trying.
Yes, I know here are many contexts here. It depends on which context we are talking about. In one context, slowly is surely. In another context, time and tide wait for on man. Both contexts are right.

So, if we literally were lions or tigers we didn't need to worry if the sacrificial lambs deserved to be our lunch (it might not be natral if we do). But in another context, we are not them, right?

[mojomojo]

Not long ago, I sat and watched through the window, my sister in laws, four year old.
He was playing with his bike, when two older boys came over and took the bike off him, his instant re-action was, not to cry or run to mammy for help, but to punch the older boy in the face, whereby the older boy handed him back his bike and walked off.
In his four short years on this planet, he has learned, violence works, is that natural learning or has he been conditioned already.
Can we honestly say spiritual practices are natural.
Everything evolves as it is, everything comes in its own just time, the desire to reach anything comes purely from ego, it is nothing more than trying to speed up natural evolution.
I once talked at great length to this character, a very intelligent, mellow and completely at ease with himself young man, he knew nothing of spirituality, never read on the matter, but was a very good listener and conversationalist and often came back with his very down to earth, practical advice.
If we are here now, knowing what we know, why dont we just be here, and enjoy it.
Rather than spending time in isolation, preparing ourselves to be, where we are not.

[gruntal]

I have asked how many people I killed or murdered in past lives but did not get a direct answer. Sometimes I was surprisingly nice but we all have a dark past if we go back far enough. What I was told is that I always seemed to have some sense of honor and discipline. It wasn't my nature to be a monster. But I was also told I suspected something was missing and/or I wasn't very brave. Hence the unrest now when I no longer see things in black or white.

Just when you are starting to get comfortable ....