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Post by cliff on Dec 28, 2017 12:48:34 GMT
We can't have free will, because we are here on earth to learn . the World is a school of learning . if we are here to learn then or circumstancies must be created and controlled for us by God and the Angell's so that we can learn from them.
So we all walk a predetermined pathway , that may seem harsh and restricting and it is , but we have to learn all that god wants us to learn . some of us have harder lives than others but everyone will be rewarded in heaven .
We are only here temporary on earth ,heaven is our true home .
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Post by gruntal on Dec 28, 2017 16:25:55 GMT
We are indeed lacking in free will in as much as we decided before we were born our lessons and destinies in any one life time. But the experiences were apparently unknown or unappreciated or why would we need to go thru them? So the real question is who or what is our master. And how much this is separated from the others and their destinies and desires.
It is argued to know and accept this as fact means little to one until they experience it. Assuming that one has the intelligence to know the difference between choice and fate to begin with. But as to where we rightfully belong - Heaven or Hell - that depends on how much we also think the physical existence exists of it's own accord.
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Post by cliff on Dec 28, 2017 16:38:13 GMT
We have 2 masters. The first is God and the second is our higher self an angel in heaven that controls us from heaven .
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Post by cliff on Dec 28, 2017 17:24:31 GMT
Did you ask god if that was true because god and the angels told me we are controlled and don't have free will
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Post by gruntal on Dec 28, 2017 20:05:33 GMT
The idea that life is a classroom experience goes hand in hand with reincarnation. That contradicts some religious notions we merely incarnate once to accept or reject some free offer of salvation. If we make the right decision then when we die we instantly transform into our ultimate and final form. Many of us think that notion is too limited and lacking in potential. Also it mocks the effort to pick and choose right from wrong and truth and dishonesty. If nothing matters then why not just ride it out and do nothing but believe?
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Post by cliff on Dec 28, 2017 21:37:57 GMT
Why do you believe, you talk to God or angels. <iframe width="19.399999999999977" height="2.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.4px; height: 2.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 0px; top: 0px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_36030459"></iframe> <iframe width="19.399999999999977" height="2.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.4px; height: 2.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 910px; top: -104px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_96881467"></iframe> <iframe width="19.399999999999977" height="2.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.4px; height: 2.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -13px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_79241456"></iframe> <iframe width="19.399999999999977" height="2.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.4px; height: 2.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 910px; top: -13px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_20686627"></iframe> I talk to god and the angels through the feelings in my heart and Intuition . through the chakras which is how god and the angels communicate with us they taught me this directly |
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sparklekaz
Someone asked me.. What is your religion? I said, "All the paths that lead to the light".
Posts: 3,658
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Post by sparklekaz on Dec 29, 2017 1:08:42 GMT
Hi all, Interesting discussion. I believe in free will. Mojomojo said, if it was all preordained or laid out by someone else, and our actions are controlled. Why then do we keep getting it wrong. That sums it up pretty well for me.  I believe we choose to come here, not forced. We can opt in or opt out. We still live out our life span regardless. The desire to learn is self-motivated from within, and fluctuates. I believe our relationship with God is a partnership. Just my thoughts on it. Love and light Kaz |
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Post by aceofcups on Dec 29, 2017 3:54:18 GMT
To me Free Will depends on the levels of consciousness and awareness an individual has integrated and evolved to. The more we are aligned with Higher Will the more Free will one has -- but -- it's a paradox -- because a Being truly living under Higher Will no longer wants to exercise personal ego oriented Free Will in a sense. They have learned that there is a vast Divine Plan and Cosmic Laws which rule life. Learning those rules and living under them is the grand learning experience of being an evolving conscious human. It takes work to learn and then apply those rules into our life. The Free Will is how and in what way we want to experience life's journey. But each journey does have set parameters and energy patterns it must grow with. So in that way we have a loosely framed and somewhat changeable "destiny".
I wrote a paper once on Destiny and Free-Will in the Astrology Chart :
How does Astrology deal with the concept of Destiny and Free Will in one's astrology chart and in one's life. I do think as Kaz says we (our higher awareness with our guides) choose a overall workable blueprint of our life before we incarnate based on our karmic predicament and possible lessons we want to work on. ( Destiny paints it's life pictures in broad strokes not every little choice we make). But it is a workable and somewhat changeable blueprint and some have more freedom then others because of their overall Soul growth. To me there is no grand Being playing with our life ( judging and giving to one, taking away from others etc) but laws of existence in which life plays out. Totally learn the laws and one has more Free-Will... be totally in the present and be an instrument for Divine Will to play out.
Astrology is the study of archetypical vibrational energy patterns which can effect individuals and groups ( both small and large groups). It gives situations an energy blueprint of forces which are effecting ones physical, etheric, emotional, mental and/or Soul consciousness. To me it is a blueprint of certain karmic seeds of destiny we have to work on in a lifetime or a certain cycle of life. Karma to me can be both good or challenging , it is just the balancing out of energy within our whole being.
Astrology aspects ( energy between two or more planets or archetypes within us - ie conjunction, square, trine etc) can give us possible challenging or possible beneficial patterns – each aspect has its energy signature and a certain parameter of meanings. All astrological influences resonate on a lower to higher frequency scale. The same transit or aspect will impact two people differently. While there are multiple reasons why this occurs, a primary one is at what level an individual is responding to these energies and aspects and configurations within our own astrological chart and inner being. I find that understanding of both the lower AND higher expressions of an astrological event, gives on a clearer picture. It is then up to the person to decide how one will respond, and this is an act of Free Will. Some astrological configurations are said to be aligned from our Higher self ( trans-saturnine aspects of Neptune, Uranus and Pluto). They can be more Destiny karmic driven then all of our smaller personal situations, where we may have more personal free-will.
An example is one person may react to a strong Mars influence with impatience and frustration while another may react from a higher expression of the Mars energy influencing them with drive, focus and enthusiasm. While we cannot change the fact that there is a strong Mars influence occurring, no more than we can keep it from raining, we can, by consciously directing our Free Will, decide how we will react to it or get an umbrella. In essence, how we decide to respond to the events and energies present around and in us creates the energy foundations for our life.
To be able to know the higher expressions available to one and then to make choices based on that knowledge, is the true positive use of astrological understanding and of Free Will. Flowing with the energies that are in and around helps with the growth of ourselves and all we come in contact with. Also, the more we can align with the energies present the more grounded, centered and calm one can become to do what “needs” to be done in any situation.
peace.. ace
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Post by cliff on Dec 29, 2017 9:06:14 GMT
We don't get it wrong . god makes us mess up to learn from our mistakes and to repay karma . sin is done through us not from us we just pay the karma for those sins
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Post by aceofcups on Dec 29, 2017 14:01:03 GMT
Robert... I am adding this to tell you I posted this before I read what you wrote and just now went back to add this... because I was responding below to Cliff's comment above not yours.... ace
WE are each entitled to our own beliefs. Personally I find your idea that "god makes us mess up to learn from our mistakes" a bit ridiculous. Not saying this to offend. Choice and responsibility to me are key components of how and why we learn over time. Sometimes, or a lot for many, we don't exactly remember or weren't aware when or how we activated a karmic energy activity. But we are responsible for it nevertheless.
By our activating choices -- Individually and Collectively of Physical, Emotional, Mental and Spiritual activities we are setting forces into play at every moment. Ultimately we are responsible for our choices and the outcome. Projecting it upon a Godhead is not how it works to me. The Laws and eventual understanding of them is a gift of compassionate LOVE from the Absolute Intelligent Consciousness. Just my understanding.
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I believe we choose to come here, not forced. We can opt in or opt out. We still live out our life span regardless. The desire to learn is self-motivated from within, and fluctuates. I believe our relationship with God is a partnership. Just my thoughts on it. 
