Pisces Age and Aquarius Age

[baangus]

I've spent a lot of time pondering what people are attempting to describe when they talk about religious versus spiritual. Religious belief is spiritual, therefore it isn't that. And so for a time I referred to things as religious belief versus new-age thought. But that’s not right either. A lot of new-age thought is quite religious, depending on the individual and their beliefs. And some modern religious commentary I’ve come across reminds me more of something a new-age thinker might write. My latest attempt at breaking this down into something that makes sense to me, is something I thought I’d share.

I differentiate between the Pisces Age approach to Spirit understanding, versus the Aquarius Age approach.

The Pisces Age is known as the age of the great religions. The fish is the symbol for Pisces, and it is in the symbol that a degree of understanding can be gained. The spirit seeker is enclosed and swims about in the water element. Water is the symbol of Spirit. The spirit seeker is immersed in Spirit, and lives their life in a kind of dream-world dependency state. Think of a baby in a womb. Spirit is the life-giving element from which the seeker is never separated, never apart. This mirrors religion’s understanding of Spirit: that which is responsible for life, and shapes and gives meaning to all human activity.

The symbol of Aquarius is the water bearer. The spirit seeker stands upon solid ground in the waking world, separate and apart from Spirit. The emphasis now is the spirit seeker as the empowered representative of Spirit on earth, holding the vessel containing her/his personal Spirit understanding. It is from this vessel that the individual pours out their Spirit understanding, into the world, for others to share and splash about in.

It’s a fascinating time because human beings are in the waking stage of this new age. People are experiencing their first steps of belief-freedom, no longer bound by the constraints of institutional directives. We forge our own path to Spirit, choose and create our individual beliefs, and in the process form our own personal belief vessels. It’s an entirely new way of relating to Spirit. I personally see it as a new consciousness impulse in human evolution; I believe that’s the reason the Aquarius Age is of such notable significance.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Baangus,

You bring a really interesting and perceptive, insight, to how you differentiate between spiritual as opposed to religious. I have always seen similarities between the two, and that they only differ in as much as someone who deems themselves as being 'spiritual' is inclusive, rather than a religious person being 'exclusive'. As in their spirituality only encompasses the doctrine or dogma that they believe in. And give no credence to anyone elses if it differs from theirs. That God belongs to them and no one else. Whereas a spiritual person believes that God belongs to 'everyone'. Religion holds for me a sense of competitiveness with others, whereas spirituality is more about bettering ourselves.

What especially stood out for me in your post, was when you said "The symbol of Aquarius is the water bearer. The spirit seeker stands upon solid ground in the waking world, separate and apart from Spirit. The emphasis now is the spirit seeker as the empowered representative of Spirit on earth, holding the vessel containing her/his personal Spirit understanding. It is from this vessel that the individual pours out their Spirit understanding, into the world, for others to share and splash about in.

It’s a fascinating time because human beings are in the waking stage of this new age. People are experiencing their first steps of belief-freedom, no longer bound by the constraints of institutional directives. We forge our own path to Spirit, choose and create our individual beliefs, and in the process form our own personal belief vessels. It’s an entirely new way of relating to Spirit. I personally see it as a new consciousness impulse in human evolution;"

Over the years I have often thought about how, as part of our spiritual growth myself and others focus very much on reawakening to our spirit selves. Of reconnecting with that part of ourselves that we forget when we are born into our physical forms. But the question that I would return to in my own mind was. If while we are in our spirit form we are aware of our true nature and party to so much spiritual knowledge, why on earth would we choose to come here and 'forget it'. Why choose to keep climbing back on the wheel? There is spiritual literature that deals with this, particularly in Buddhism, where they speak of the soul needing to incarnate to continue to learn and grow. To equal karmic debt and eventually be liberated from it.

In a way, this is almost a kind of mental bondage similar to what we see within religion when they talk about sin and redemption. (not so different is it) And I whilst I acknowledge this makes sense. And understand that each time we bring back a little of that knowledge with us, that hopefully will help us to do a little better this time. But for the most part to me it almost feels like 'ground hog day'. For the thousands of times we incarnate, we progress in tiny steps. I've always felt there was so much more to this then what I am seeing. The words you have said above really resonated with me and I can see that this must be an important part of the higher purpose behind it. You have given me a different perspective. So thank you for sharing.

Love and light
Kaz

[baangus]

May 11, 2016 21:28:17 GMT sparklekaz said:

I've always felt there was so much more to this then what I am seeing. The words you have said above really resonated with me and I can see that this must be an important part of the higher purpose behind it. You have given me a different perspective. So thank you for sharing.

I really just wanted to post a few thoughts for the purpose of spurring a discussion. I'm not sure where I stand anymore with ideals like "higher purpose." Or let's put it this way: When I speak of higher purpose, I direct the focus towards myself, and not something outside of me. My higher purpose for example is to continue to evolve my self-awareness, for the purpose of being more and more in-tune with life and my surroundings. It seems the more in-tune I am, the more joyful life becomes. That's my motivation.

My motivation isn't to be "spiritual." My motivation isn't to "ascend" or become a "master." I'm not trying to "honor God" or become "one with Creation." I'm just trying to be the best me I can be, here, on this planet, in this lifetime.

Now that may sound contradictory given my first post, because in my first post I spoke of great wondrous evolutionary spiritual impulses and such. But I see a difference between dreaming and imagining what is and might be, versus simply getting on with living real life. I don't carry these imaginations around with me like they're my Bible. When I discuss topics like this, it's similar to discussing a dream I had. This is what I dream and imagine might be or could be. Or it possibly has nothing to do with anything except my imagination. I'm not attached to the idea and the dream.

In my first post, I was trying to identify what I feel is the difference between the Pisces versus Aquarius way in which beliefs are formed and held. On spiritual forums, people talk about religious versus spiritual. But again, it's not that. As I see it, it has to do with our degree of attachment to the imaginations and dreams we have. If we attach to these imaginations and dreams, we subsequently create static, dead belief doctrine for ourselves. This is the Pisces Age model, which served its purpose at one time. If we stay detached from our imaginations and dreams, it allows those imaginations to evolve and change and metamorphose. This creates a living relationship with our imaginations, which in turn leads to an ever-expanding intuitive understanding of what ever it is we are examining. This is the new Aquarius Age individual-wisdom process I was alluding to.

[baangus]

May 11, 2016 21:28:17 GMT sparklekaz said:

In a way, this is almost a kind of mental bondage similar to what we see within religion when they talk about sin and redemption. (not so different is it)

I've been on a jag for some time now, attempting to eliminate all my mental bondage beliefs. It started years ago with the notion of God. I dropped that notion, and that was easy because I've never had much use for typical God concepts. I started referring to it as Divine Consciousness, or the Creative Source, or the Universal Mind.

But then a short while ago, I looked at that and thought, "Well wait a minute here... not so different is it?" All I did was I took the same lump of clay, and just molded it into a different shape. Whereas I want to stop taking hold of lumps of clay and arbitrarily shaping them into stuff.

So I asked myself why I even imagine a Divine Consciousness. Where is that idea coming from? Well, my life answers always come to me by examining life, so that's where I started. I see consciousness in nature. Animals and even plants have a degree of consciousness. And there is something that appears to know when to be spring and when to be winter. But does any of that "prove" all of this was created by, and is being directed by, some singular Divine Consciousness? No. To come to that conclusion, based on what we are able to observe, is just a faith-belief leap, is all. 

And I came to see that my belief in Divine Consciousness, is just another mental bondage belief. And it's since become clear to me how beliefs of any kind, get in the way of my self-development and personal growth. Again, that's not to say we can't dream into life and wonder about any of this. But I've come to see the difference between dreaming and then letting go, versus holding onto so tight that it binds us mentally.

[mojomojo]

I like where your going with this, it comes across, very much as living completely in the now, with all past life baggage dropped, totally detached, continuously dying to the past in every moment, continuously being reborn, so each moment is fresh and alive, no mind clutter of beliefs or labels, just living the moment, fully and letting life unfold.
Simple in theory, but yes, I can not disagree with anything you have said.



Mojo.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Baangus,

I do see where you are coming from. And I can also see how belief can be self limiting, and how often we let go of one thing, only to find we've created something else that is the same. But isn't becoming better versions of ourselves achieved by the whole process of thinking, developing a thought and running with it. All our beliefs, opinions can only come from one source, and that is from our environment and life experiences. And the only time I've made changes in my thought process, that comes away from what I've created for myself based on my life, has come about from 'intuitive leaps'. I can't help but wonder where does this comes from.

Over the years, like you I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate responsibility for my life, what I choose to accept or deny, the way my life has turned out, is totally down to me. I truly believe that striving for self knowledge through mindfulness and self awareness is the only way to live. Accepting myself for who I am, surrendering also to circumstances I can't control, and being pro-active in creating the kind of life I want for myself. Its been difficult, and there is no doubt, that trying to straighten out repercussions of past decisions can be really difficult and something I'm still dealing with. it's like trying to unravel a big ball of wool, with knots in it. Non of this is down to God or some external influence.

I have made a lot of progress in learning to love myself, warts and all. I've gone through the blame game, where it was everyone else's fault but mine. I am letting go of the need to have to justify myself. I know what I've done and why I did it. But I am not the same person, and would if faced with those situations again, now choose differently. But I also know, if I had not acted as I did, I would not have learned so much about myself and I hope become a much wiser and compassionate person because of it. So on reflection, I regret nothing. I am what I am. I'e also had to learn to release guilt, and to stop taking all the blame. This can be a downside to burgeoning spiritual growth. An almost martyr like compulsion to take on the wrongs of everyone. Its not my job to save everyone either. And I'm not afraid anymore of saying no for fear of not being loved. I am starting to love myself enough, so as not to depend on others for that love. But its all ongoing. As you say, all I can do is strive to be the best version of myself that I can be. And allow other people to do the same, their way.

But, having said all that, I do still believe in a universal or divine consciousness that I am connected to. I don't think it controls our lives, but I do feel it is part of our spiritual life. That it can offer us guidance if we allow ourselves to be open to it. The earth I believe is a sentient, self regulating organism. And I believe as part of that living organism we are connected to it. This spiritual awareness is part of that, but so much more. It is very hard for me to put it into words. I believe in divine intelligence. I believe in a God. Not the old or new testament God of the bible, but a living God, that is eternally constant and present.

love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi Baangus,

Good thread and good posts!

The following is just my thought about this which doesn't goes against your posts at all, I promise.
Every time I heard someone said that cliché, "Spiritual but not religious" I wonder how could it be. Though it's true that religion has become institution and lost its own original values while spirituality has become popular because it cut to the chase and deals directly with the well-being of the "mind-body-spirit" (holistic) and the connection of self, others and universes (the seen and the unseen universe), but how can subset is not the part its set?  This is like saying, "(I'm a) New Yorker but not American" How could that be?
Spirituality has its root from religion. Therefore, spirituality is always the subset of religion even it might be a reformed one.  
And I think a spiritual person who could truly understand about a reformed religion (spirituality) should be the person who has been studied and practice on that very religion for a long time until understand its difference, not just a newbie who is so proud to call himself "a new ager" when he never known anything about a religion at all. (I've found those a lot).
I also used to believe in the new age concept or a reformed religion until sometimes I ignored its set, its religion, even that time I had been studied and practiced both my religion and spirituality so well. Until one day, an old venerable monk warned me (and my spiritual friends) that no matter how much religion today declines, at least it will last longer than any popular belief which always comes and goes, like fireworks that seem to look so bright in the sky, and then disappears in a short while. Besides, the core could not survive without its bark.
I think his words were so true. How many New age gurus the world has had until today? How many thousands? And every years there will be new gurus show themselves to us. Another popular new age belief again and again. Old wine in new bottles again, just changes its label (words) and/or coin new ones to make it look so cool. And what happens? Nothing. The world is still the same. Worse than that, we always heard about how those gurus took advantage of their disciples in one way of another. If spirituality is a reformed religion that separated itself because the bad of the latter, what does this mean? It only means the world has to bear with another new bad one more than the old bad one? :-)
I always respect all religions in the world, even I do believe in spirituality. And I never said that cliché to myself or anyone.     
    

[baangus]

May 12, 2016 15:30:10 GMT donq said:

Good thread and good posts!
The following is just my thought about this which doesn't goes against your posts at all, I promise.

Nothing you post would go against what I post; that would just be your view and opinion, which is perfectly okay. That's called dialogue and discussion. Even arguing can be beneficial providing people don't end up busting up the pub.

My take on religion is different. Everything evolves, including human consciousness and understanding. From an evolutionary perspective, religion is to human consciousness, what bronze and iron tools were to human civilization-building. Just as we no longer use bronze tools, Pisces Age religious ideas and conceptualizing will be a thing of the past at some point in human evolution. That is my view and opinion.

You say religion contained "bad" aspects, and that spirituality is reformed or corrected religion. One reason I started this thread was to point out that religion and spirituality are only words. Their meaning is different for everyone, exclusive to the individual using those words. I'm more interested in identifying from which "stream of consciousness" our ideas and concepts are born and nurtured.  

[baangus]

May 12, 2016 12:48:04 GMT mojomojo said:

I like where your going with this, it comes across, very much as living completely in the now, with all past life baggage dropped, totally detached, continuously dying to the past in every moment, continuously being reborn, so each moment is fresh and alive, no mind clutter of beliefs or labels, just living the moment, fully and letting life unfold. Simple in theory

I connect with this description. This is what I was speaking to in Kaz's Forgiveness thread. I don't feel the need to forgive, in large part because I don't dwell on what was. I have moved on from my past. I have literally recreated my life anew. I'm fortunate in that regard, I was in a position where I was able to leave my old life behind and start over in a whole different place. Simple in theory is true. It is difficult to imprint new patterns upon old behaviors. Knowing that, what I did then is I severed my ties with the old, completely.

There is a thread in the forum asking how a baby learns its behavior. I'm unclear what the proposed conclusion is, but the suggestion seems to be the child is being directed by a higher source - God I assume (?). But I would take that further and ask: How do animals instinctively know what they do, and they do and learn many times faster than humans; a new-born animal is up and walking about within hours and even minutes. That would indicate animals are being directed by God to a much greater degree, would it not? And how do seeds know to grow into whichever plant they mature into? How does a rock know to adopt a stationary existence? Or is the question meant to be limited to "God's image" creatures only? Is this an authentic, occult exploration pertaining to the nature of existence? Or is it simply meant to prop up one particular faith-belief view of human life being directed by God?

My approach is to first of all detach from the need for answers of any kind, and in particular answers based on external spiritual/religious belief-theory. I instead live it and experience it, and allow intuitive answers to arise in the process. Again, this as I see it is the Aquarius Age model. The answers I come to are my answers, whatever they may be. And that's because the very source of truth itself has shifted; that is another aspect of the Aquarius Age, that's what I see. And I will explain that more in detail in another post.

[mojomojo]

I have always considered spirituality in its basic sense, mans connection with his envoirment in which he is not a separate identity in command, but an integral part of the blending of the whole, his respect shown to all that is, by seeing the spirit in everything and honouring that.
The word spirituality to him, probably didn't exist, it was just life as it was.
Many talk about this connection, but who has actually experienced it.
With the ongoing progress, and I use the word lightly, of civilisation, those in charge knew in order to have full control, they had to come between man and spirit, to break that link of personal intuition and connection, thus religion was born, for me that is the difference between the two.
As regards animals and plants knowing what to do, I put that down to genetic makeup or DNA, just a guess, I don't pretend to know.
But people do not like to think of themselves as been controlled or programmed, but isn't that what we do, when we do our inner work, we remove all the false beliefs and junk we have had rammed into us over the years.
That which is an individual thing, spirituality, has been formulated into a one size fits all, with a bit of control thrown into the mix, yes, the days of organised religion are coming to an end, and giving birth or should I say rebirth to individual spirituality, where man learns by experience.
I have often asked, if we build a wall around us with our intellectual spirituality, and have always found for every question answered, another half dozen arises, and when I stopped needing answers, there were no more questions.
Excellent topic Baangus, and have to say I'am very much in agreement with you, but I differ in that, behind all we see is an intelligent energy, call it what you will, I'am not saying it needs to be worshipped, but for me it is there, and when I flow with it, life is in harmony.

[baangus]

May 13, 2016 13:26:10 GMT mojomojo said:

Excellent topic Baangus, and have to say I'am very much in agreement with you, but I differ in that, behind all we see is an intelligent energy, call it what you will, I'am not saying it needs to be worshipped, but for me it is there, and when I flow with it, life is in harmony.

Thanks. I see something inter-connected in nature. The sun circles the earth, creating seasons; nature wakes for a time then goes back to sleep. And everything in nature appears to know its role. Now I don't call any of it God or Divine. And I don't think of it as Creative Intelligence because that implies, to me anyway, something outside of the creation, looking upon and directing the creation.

The ideas I'm exploring these days have to do with looking at alternate ways of imagining that Intelligence. So, not an Intelligence that made the thing; rather an Intelligence that IS the thing. I see everything as Spirit. In my view, everything that exists, and that happens, is this Spirit. What I am communicating right now for example, is this Spirit, communicating. It is not the sort of Spirit that looks down upon its creation while watching me type. It is doing the typing. 

Just my thoughts, I want to be clear I'm not trying to invalid your thoughts, or convince you of mine.

[mojomojo]

Yes, I agree, we are an integral part of it all and not separate in any way, to deny either would be to deny the whole.
But, does it not bring us back to basics, at the end of the day, whatever we think is a concept, an idea, a thought that we have chosen.
Whether it came from mental processing or experience, it remains only a thought, unless we have managed to keep the experience as a permanent reality,
And by labelling, thinking or talking of such a thing, we have removed ourselves from it.

I have often asked myself would an enlightened person, post on a spiritual forum, and I thought to myself, the answer has to be no,
to partake in mind activity, creates a separateness, engaging in dialogue and thinking about been present, will never make us be present.
Is it possible to be fully present and engage the mind, or do we drop one to facilitate the other?
Again, any answer will be just a concept, unless received from experience, and even then only serves the experienced.

I think there comes a time, even though we have to run the gantlet, were we come full circle so to speak, what served us in the past, books, dialogue, etc, cease to be of any use, and all we are left with, is that which was always there, just "being" itself.