What do you when someone betrayed you?

[donq]

What do you when someone betrayed you?
(I meant betrayal of any kind of badly treat in friendship, relationship, partnership etc.)

I was wondering about this for so long. Sure, most spiritual persons might say, "Just forgive them and love them!" Come on! It's easy said than done, is it not? If you didn't believe me, just try to live with my mother 24/7 and you would know what I mean. hahaha
My point is, yes, I know the first and most important thing is to deal with my anger. Let's say I can handle it so well without problem (and I really can). Still, I cannot help but don't want to meet the persons any more. I honestly cannot love them, and not because they betrayed me (even they betrayed someone else, not me, I also felt the same). I can forgive but not forget. I only meant in the sense that I "know" them as they really are. If you know for sure that scorpion would sting you even it didn't meant to, as it's only just nature, you still trust and dare to "touch" it?
Besides, I don't know what to do when I meet them. Pretending as if everything is the same? (Isn't dishonesty against spirituality?) Just walking away? (Doesn't that mean no compassion?).
As I've already said I never had problem with forgiving, and I used to think that if I loved them enough I had to do something to help them, as least talked them out of their bad habits. But one thing I've learned from my painful experiences is it's so hard for people to change. (I myself am still hard to change. hahaha) Talking will never work. The more you try to talk to someone, to help them, the more they would think that you are trying to outwit them. So they would try their best to outwit you in return. That's all. Because if they are the kind of persons who could realize when they did something wrong, why on earth they need you to remind them of that, right?  
Oh! I'm sorry if this post sounds a bit grumpy. Honestly, I'm not unpleasant, just felt tired. 

[baangus]

Hi donq. From my experience: I did not forget or forgive. After a long while I came to a place of reflection where I saw how I have betrayed people at times in my life, mostly slight betrayals and without them ever knowing. That made me reconsider my feelings of anger and indignation, it seemed hypocritical. I betray and I have been betrayed. This is the wheel of life. From that point on I was able to let things go, a kind of forgiveness I suppose but without any emotion attached nor any interest in setting things right with anyone, just me getting on with things and being happy to have learned something about myself.

[mojomojo]

Some people never change, they learn from life, what they need to survive, they carry whatever hurts they experienced, in the form of bitterness and anger their entire life and their only means of respite, is to off load on another.
Forgiveness is something I have struggled with all my life, if I was crossed, I never forgot it.
I thought, why should I forgive someone, who given the opportune moment, would re offend.
Then I thought what it was doing to me, and that by not forgiving, I was holding them to ransom, I was trying to impose a guilt trip on them, and not allowing them the opportunity to move on.
Forgiveness, is accepting people for who they are, even though they haven't learnt the same,
and not letting their mind games take effect, but understanding, why they, are the way they are.
If been in their company, brings anger, the wound is still too fresh, time is a great healer.

[sparklekaz]

It hurts when our trust is betrayed, there is no doubt about that. And it can be difficult to forgive. As others have said, we can forgive but we cannot forget. And so, long after the betrayal has occurred, we continue to allow what happened to influence our thoughts, words and actions. And in that sense, I believe long after the person who hurt us has forgotten what happened, we are still hurting from it. But what is actually happening, is that we are hurting ourselves. One of my favourite quotes is by Lewis B Smedes who said - "to forgive is to set a prisoner free, and discover that the prisoner was you."

The truth is, not all people will hurt or deceive us. But the danger is, we will actually live the rest of our lives, believing they will. Because of the actions of one or two people. We withhold our love and trust from people who do not deserve to be treated like that. Something else I'd like you to think about. When we say that people cannot change. Ask yourself this question. Am I still the same person I was twenty, ten, five or even one year ago? Then ask yourself the question again. Can people change?

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi everyone,

All of you were right. Thanks.
Though I could forget and forgive those who betrayed me, but sometimes I really could not forgive myself (for being stupid enough to believe them in the first place). hahaha
Let me give you an example (this was just one of so many events that happened to me).
After 12 years of marriage, I knew for sure that my wife cheated on me, I forgave and forgot her and asked if she wanted to start all over again. She said yes. Anyway, after a while, she cheated on me for the second time, though this time I still could forgive her but I could not forget and didn't know what to do. Lucky that she asked for divorce.
See? Now I really can forgive and forget her, I also can forgive myself (for being stupid) but I still cannot forget about my stupidity on the second time. hahaha

P.S. Hey Amy, what is the tree on your avatar (photo) ? Sakura?

[mojomojo]

Some people go through life very open, this may be part of their spiritual practise, or not.
My wife is one of these people, because she walks with a stick, she is often seen as a soft target.
First time she was mugged, nothing brutal, but knocked to the ground and her confidence shook, I tried to explain to her about been street smart.
She was mugged on two more occasions, and in despair, I again tried to get her to be street smart.
She blankly refused, and wanted to continue been open, friendly and true to what she held to be important.
Being true to the way you are, regardless of external circumstances, requires great strength and courage, stupid doesn't even come into the equation.

[sparklekaz]

Beatrice is a lovely lady Robert. And very brave. I think if I was mugged it would really affect my confidence. I would be terrified about it happening again. In that situation, she shows great strength of character and inner strength, to not let it change who she is fundamentally as an open, trusting person. Though being 'street smart' I feel wouldn't change that about her. It would simply teach her to be extra careful and discerning in certain circumstances. Just as we teach children not to talk to or get into a strangers car. But I get what she means. She doesn't want that experience to turn her into someone she is not.

Monty - so your over-riding feelings about your ex wife's infidelity are - hurt at being made to look foolish or stupid? I don't think that is really true do you. Feeling stupid, is when you burn yourself twice or more on the stove, when you keep repeating the action that burnt you the first time. It's not stupid to have hope - to give someone a second chance - or to believe them when they make a promise and then go back on it. I know many people make promises that in that moment, truly believe them and speak the truth. But then go on to realize that are unable to keep them. And though painful, at least your ex wife realized she couldn't be that person anymore and made the decision to end your marriage. Better to be honest than continue living a lie. Better for you too in the long run. I know of couples where one or the other is habitually unfaithful. But continue living together for the sack of their children, financial security, family pressure or appearances. No one is happy, everyone knows what's going on and both people are trapped in a loveless relationship. Sometimes it really does take more courage to end things and go their separate ways. I think if viewed in this way, it can go far in lessening feelings of pain and bitterness.

I think its also important to remember that people change. What they want from their lives changes. And if someone falls out of love with another. It doesn't mean that person has suddenly become unlovable, or not worthy of love. Though I know most would see it as the worst kind of rejection. In my experience relationships rarely end because of the actions of just one person. And if people are honest, by examining their own behaviour might see where, at some point in time, they have not been emotionally investing in the relationship, as they had been. I believe infidelity is a symptom that a relationship is in trouble. Rather than the sole reason it breaks down. Though on a literal level, for many that will be the outcome.

The sad thing is, when a relationship ends, many are so wrapped up in the pain and bitterness they feel, that they don't move on and find lasting love. Which is really the whole point of two people going their separate ways isn't it. To find what they are not receiving or giving in their current relationship. And sometimes someone doesn't leave us just because they don't love us anymore. Maybe it's because they love us enough to know that they can't make us happy anymore, they want us to be free to find someone else who can.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi Robert,

You really did understand my situation. hahaha Thanks.
And I do agree with Karen, Beatrice is a very brave woman!

Hi Amy,

First, let me say that, I mentioned about my case just for the sake of spiritual discussion. I don't mean to ask for any attention to myself. And I didn't feel sorry for myself. I just don't feel vulnerable because of my openness ( I kind of being cheeky. ).
There was a children in my country. It went like this:

"Everybody doesn't love me
Even (electrical) fan still shakes its head" 

Very good point! However, I found that there was another one more than 1 and 2 you mentioned. She was a psychopath! Please don't get me wrong, I didn't speak of this as a person who tried to find fault with my ex. I had spent 3 years after my divorce extending my personal research (I had been doing only on spirituality) to cover this topic until I'd rather be sure. She was not a normal case, but an abnormal one. I used to be in the situation like this before in my first divorce. And it was totally different. Suffice to say that my first divorce was like a normal divorce other people had. She and I said goodbye peacefully. I meant she asked for divorce because she just wanted my money (house, car etc.) and I gave all to her and she never tried to contact me again. End of story. As for my second ex, it was so complicated. After I gave her my apartment and I found my rent room, she and I still worked together from time to time (we both were freelancers). Just only a few months after the divorce, she called and told me that her husband was dead. What on earth was happening?! I really felt sorry for her (and was afraid she might want to come back to me. Lucky that she didn't. lol). And as a good thing to do, I became a good listener for her, to help her feeling better from her grief. And she did. I still helped about her job (I was also a book editor while she was a translator). Once I even drove for her to an upcountry for her job's interview. I helped her just because it was a good thing to do, not because she was my ex. I had not heard from her for a while and then she told me that she got pregnant (after she went to see her sister in USA for a few months). She asked me if I could help her raising her baby. I really didn't know what she meant by that but I didn't say yes or no. What I try to say is I still love her as another human being. But that's all. I don't feel that I would like to be close to her. I feel uncomfortable with her.
P.S. A nice tree, whatever it is. :-)   

Hi Karen,

Yes , you got me right. I didn't feel hurt about my ex wife's infidelity any more. Yes, I used to feel that way. But that was long time ago. I already handled with it. What I meant by stupidity was that I should not mistake the way things were for the way I liked them to be (in a idealist way). If I didn't know anything about spirituality, after my divorce, my ex and I should not meet each other again. Or at least, I should know how to say no. I should not try to be a good person, or her friend, to help her. It was not a normal way doing what I did. I should let it go. I learned in the hard way that, doing the good thing to the not right person, means doing the bad thing. I knew this but I always repeated myself with it. And what should it be called if not my stupidity? 

There was a line in the movie I like: "I'm bad but I feel good." Sometimes, I was really curious what if I were bad? Would I feel good?


            

[aceofcups]

hi Kaz, Monty

i just wanted to add.. so many people act conditionedly and compulsively when emotions and desires come into play. That is why so many people keep making the same mistakes again and again. Would be wonderful if people were mindfully consciously aware of all of their emotions and actions - but most aren't.  Doesn't even mean any party is "bad" -- just that they can't always control how they act, think and feel at times.

Forgiveness allows the energy of realizing that "nobody is perfect all the time".... we are all works in progress.   Both the betrayer and the betrayed.   It is process of learning to forgive others and ourselves... never really a one-sided process.

To me - Spirituality we are trying to be aware of how our Higher Self or Soul consciousness sees life. Not to just act as unaware selfish ego's.   No easy task for anyone.   Past regrets and hurts lay lodged in our solar plexus chakra  ( gut of our stomach) - when we hold them it starts to affect more and more areas in our life ( consciously or unconsciously). Really letting it go ( via forgiveness - loving kindness meditation etc) can allow it to move on - and frees our energy.  Because we are not perfect also,, it is not easy either.  or Easier said then done.

peace

[sparklekaz]

Hi Ace,

I totally agree when you said "so many people act conditionedly and compulsively when emotions and desires come into play. That is why so many people keep making the same mistakes again and again. Would be wonderful if people were mindfully consciously aware of all of their emotions and actions - but most aren't. Doesn't even mean any party is "bad" -- just that they can't always control how they act, think and feel at times." I couldn't agree more with that ace. An important part of my own personal/spiritual growth has been to finally be able to see that. Though I have to say being aware of it, somehow doesn't always help in breaking the cycle.

You said "To me - Spirituality we are trying to be aware of how our Higher Self or Soul consciousness sees life. Not to just act as unaware selfish ego's." Our reactions and responses emotionally do seem to come from a deeply ingrained part of our psyche and behaviour. So finding the root cause and resolving it lovingly with understanding, is still very much a work in process for me. You also said "Forgiveness allows the energy of realizing that "nobody is perfect all the time".... we are all works in progress. Both the betrayer and the betrayed. It is process of learning to forgive others and ourselves... never really a one-sided process." This is very wise and insightful. Something I'd not thought about in quite that way before. So thank you for sharing.

Love and light
Kaz

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

You said "What I meant by stupidity was that I should not mistake the way things were for the way I liked them to be (in a idealist way). If I didn't know anything about spirituality, after my divorce, my ex and I should not meet each other again. Or at least, I should know how to say no. I should not try to be a good person, or her friend, to help her. It was not a normal way doing what I did. I should let it go. I learned in the hard way that, doing the good thing to the not right person, means doing the bad thing." Are you saying, if you not spiritually aware, you would have given your ex a wide berth, and would not have felt compelled to speak to her or help her?

To be honest, I don't think someone has to be spiritually aware to want to help another person. Even if they have been hurt by that person. Your a loving, kind and generous person. I doubt you would have reacted any differently. I believe Compassion is an innate part of who you are. Are you saying, that there is a part of you that wishes you were not so 'spiritually aware'. That part of this is why you felt a sense of responsibility to help. That a good spiritual person, would not turn away from someone in need? You are only human Monty. And as ace said "nobody is perfect all the time".... we are all works in progress." Please don't be so hard on yourself.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Thanks Ace. You always are a good model (the very model of spiritual calmness etc, not a fashion model).

Hi Karen,

I was in bed and was going to sleep but saw your post (via my android device) and thought of something. I was afraid I would forget about it tomorrow, so I had to get up and came back to my computer again.
First of all, thank form my heart for your kind words. You are a very rare good friend who see the good part in me as you always see the good part of anyone. I do appreciate your kindness and friendship.

You said:

"Are you saying, if you not spiritually aware, you would have given your ex a wide berth, and would not have felt compelled to speak to her or help her?"

-Let me give you an example. When I still lived with my (second) ex, my (female) friend got pregnant. No! no, not with me. hahaha. She got pregnant with someone who was her co-worker. He told her that the baby was not his. She didn't know what to do and came to ask me if she could keep a baby. I used to have experience about something like this. [One of my (spiritual) friend who lived with me at the forest temple, was a disabled man (don't know if I use the right word. His left hand and leg were half-paralysis when he was born.). He was in love with a village girl who lived near our forest temple. Even he had enough money to open a grocery store in the village (he used to work for NGO),  the girl's parent didn't want her to marry him. That time I thought he was a good man (I knew later that I was so wrong about him) and he was my friend,  so I asked for the hand of the girl in marriage and her parents said okay because they trusted me. Anyway, years after I left the first temple and lived in the city, I heard that they got divorce after they had a baby. My (first) wife always blamed me about this. She knew the worldly world more than me. I meant she foresaw that it would never work. And she was right. Somehow I was the one who created this social problem.] Oops! Sorry. Let's come back to my female friend. She also worked for NGO in upcountry. She came to ask me if she should undergo an abortion  or not. She was so ashamed and knew for sure that her parents would never accept this (being pregnant without a husband). Sure, I never agreed about abortion. But, as I saw an example of my disabled friend, I knew in advance that she was going to have a very big problem raising her baby. So I only told her that she had to make a decision herself. But whatever she decided, I would help her. I was glad that she kept her baby. So, I rent a big house that had enough space for her and she came to live with me and my (second) wife. I knew that my wife didn't feel happy about this and I tried to make it up for her in every way. After my friends lived with us for 7-8 months, I took her to the hospital and got a baby girl. She asked me to name her daughter. I named her "being generous" (in my language means "having a kindness to help others). And as my friend was around 10 years younger than me, her daughter called me "grandpa". I became a grandfather when I was only 40 years old. hahaha. It was the first time I had an experience of being a dad and taking care of the baby as if she was my daughter (I was a freelancer and worked at home). After the baby was about one years old, my friend decided to talk with her parents and everything was okay and she moved to live with them.
Sorry for a bit long story. My point is I don't mind to help anyone. But as for me ex, I always wondered that to what end? I meant I didn't know what she really wanted. She just wanted to "play with" me? I honestly didn't know. But I still always helped her whenever she asked for mine. If it was not about my spirituality, I might try to avoid her which should be the best way, wasn't it? 

Goodnight, Karen.

I wrote this while I was a bit sleepy. Sorry for any errors and typos.