Should we give up? Or not?

[donq]

You might ever heard a story about "success and failure":

"Thomas Edison failed more than 1,000 times when trying to create the light bulb".  (The story is often told as 5,000 or 10,000 times depending on the version.)  When asked about it, Edison said, "I have not failed 700 (not 1,000) times.  I have successfully discovered 700 ways to NOT make a light bulb."

Though the fact is that Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb (as it had already been existed for fifty years prior to Edison's patent date), this story is always meaningful, about learning something even by mistaking/errors.

My point is when we should stop? Or never? As for spiritual practice, we've learned how to let go of anything, everything. But should we really stop doing something? Yes, for example, no matter how much I bought a lottery, I would never won its prize (My aunt always buys it and always won its prize once in a while. The point is it never covers what she already lost and will continue losing, like gambling). In this case, stop trying is the right way, the only way, right?

Recently I tried to solve one problem. I literally failed 218 times before I finally gave up. During that time I asked myself so many times if it was worth trying? And giving it up made me more relaxing somehow. I knew that working also meant sometimes, many times, have failed to get it done and only learn from that experience.
Anyway, after 4-5 days passed by, I tried it again. This time I didn't expect anything. Just did it for fun. Then, boom, I got my solution after trying it just only another one time! Yes, the 219 times! If only I tried in one time, I would get this solution five days ago.

P.S. Ace's just posted a cool post about "normad." Hmm...it seems my post here is about "norway" or not? hahaha


   
    

 

[aceofcups]

Monty... the post had word nomad as joke for no-mad,, not sure it works with normad... and not sure what the country Norway has to do with anything... except Norwegians...hahahaha

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

Was looking back at old posts and so this one of yours. I don't know why I didn't reply at the time, I know I meant to. Anyway, here it is now.

It's an interesting question, and one I've thought about myself over time. I suppose you could link it to your archer and the arrow analogy on your other post. It seems the harder we try to do something and the more attachment to it's importance we feel - it really does seem to have a counter-productive affect.

Does being overly focused on achieving a desired outcome, influence the way in which we approach a problem? I think we all try out first, what's worked before. That's normal isn't it. We draw on past experiences. Once we've exhausted those, often we're mentally tired. So I guess the best thing to do then is to leave it, and then try again when we are properly rested. Anxiety does seem to affect our ability to think 'outside of the box'. Being relaxed, with no expectation appears to free up the mind, allowing inspiration to flow.

In the past when I was job hunting, I can remember applying for lots of jobs and seemingly getting nowhere. I finally get a job, and then within a space of a week or two, suddenly get two or three more job offers. When I didn't need one. lol Life is weird isn't it. I can remember thinking, why couldn't this have happened when I was jobless and was feeling so disheartened, I never thought I'd get one.

Is this the universe at work, providing us what we need, when we really need it, rather than when we want it? I do think of the analogy about the 'journey being more important than the destination' with problem solving or overcoming obstacles. That growth or what we need to learn from life, comes from 'the trying', more than 'the getting' if that makes sense. After all, if everything in life was easy to achieve or get; where would be the challenge - the sense of achievement - the new skills, we've had to learn along the way.

As far as spiritual practice or our spirituality goes, I see this as a never-ending process. Unless I suddenly become enlightened, and I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. I never know what to expect. The minute I become too comfortable with an idea or a belief, something always comes along to turn it upside down, or force me to view my life and relationships, from a different perspective.

As I get older, life seems to be speeding along at 100 mph. It makes me very aware of how precious time is. I don't feel jaded or cynical. Though I do at times feel great pity and despair for others in the world whose circumstances are so difficult. Thinking of my mortality on one hand, can make me anxious at times. But on the other, the big plus side, I appreciate everything more. My health. The beauty of nature. Simple acts of kindness. Seeing that in others. I also appreciate, that age has given me insight and experience to view life from a higher perspective. And I'm still learning all the time. Thankfully this ability continues to expand as our physical abilities shrink. A kind of compensation. lol I think if we give up, we are saying there is nothing left to learn or experience. And I for one tend to carry on experiencing, right up till my time comes to leave this mortal coil. But then hopefully its onward and upward to my next great adventure.

Love and light
Kaz

[sparklekaz]

There is a saying, "that what is meant for us, will come to us". I always have problems deciding with this, whether or not waiting means doing nothing, or being pro-active. But that still doesn't help does it. Being pro-active could be seen as trying to force the issue. Rather than trusting the universe that somehow, what will be will be. Part of me believes this, and the other part of me thinks, well I can help it along a bit can't I.

When you told the story about the music box, I think your determination to fix it had a lot to do with it. You had a very big incentive to repair it yourself, rather than sending it back. The cost. Though I can also see the sense in your thinking, that maybe it's an intuitive thing. You 'just know' from the start, whether something can be done or not. Motivation is really important. I don't drive. I've had a few lessons in the past and I think I was ok at it, and probably if I'd persevered I'd have 'eventually' past my test. The trouble was, at the time I didn't need a car. I didn't enjoy driving and I'm not a relaxed passenger. So I lost interest, gave up with the lessons. Some people are natural drivers. And I think the younger you are when you learn the better. I was coming up to my fortieth birthday when I had lessons. So though not ancient, not young either in terms of learning to drive. But I can't really blame it on my age, because I had a couple of lessons when I was 18 and didn't like it then either. So for me, incentive, motivation are the key elements to succeeding at something or not.

Ha ha Amy.. desperation isn't a nice perfume. Seriously though, you are right. The reason I think the single stay single for a while and those who are taken are wanted by other people. Is that when you try too hard or care too much that someone likes you. You can't relax and be yourself. There is something very nice about someone simply being who they are, without having an agenda or expectation. If we are relaxed, everyone around us is too. And ultimately I think people are attracted to those in whose company they can be themselves.

Love and light
Kaz

[aceofcups]

Let me share my take of some of issues brought up by this thread:


Intentionality, strength of one's ability to mentally and emotionally focus .. and any karmic energy adjustments and one's alignment with one's higher self and its blueprints all have a part it making things happen or not happening.  Also true alignment with ones Soul and Spirit also have s part of equation. Reasons why something is trying to be created is combined with intentionality process and can alter results also.

"Thought forms" are real living things which people create in their auric fields. A thought form is filled with color, light and form...( and can be seen with one who has inner sight) and the energy and strength of the one who creates it has a lot to do with so called manifestation. Not all thought forms have the same degree of power of manifestation also.  Not everybody does have the same etheric, emotional and mental creative force and use of energy.  Ultimately they do but in practically working with energy they are not all the same.

Repeatedly thinking of same desire does create a bigger thought form... it is always what is Right from our higher self to happen,,, sometimes, not always. Thought forms attract energy to itself... the reason to me  about Kaz job story was once she was able to quiet her constant desire about getting a job ,, she then got a bunch of offers.  The repeated asking and sending out second and third chakra energy in regard to it,,, was in a way stopping it from moving into later stages.


In schools of Zen one of things they teach,,is the more one SEEKS for something, the less the ability for it to manifest.  Not that they are into manifestation as it is used in new age circles,   But those in Zen practice are talking mostly about Enlightenment,,.. but does not the same principle exist?... the actual seeking is what  keeps us away from being aligned and in the Present Moment Awareness where things can actually happen. A paradox at one level.. the more we seek the less we get.

Learning to consciously with intentionality and focus ASK and then ALSO learning to then LET GO and quietly listen, trust and receive from the Highest ,, in the Present is the full process to me.  Leaving out steps of the full process,,, makes the creative process less beneficial and easier that it may not come to pass.

sorry about running on
peace
aceofcups

[sparklekaz]

Hi Ace,

That was really interesting to read. I particularly was interested in what you said about Zen Buddhism. You said "In schools of Zen one of things they teach,,is the more one SEEKS for something, the less the ability for it to manifest. Not that they are into manifestation as it is used in new age circles, But those in Zen practice are talking mostly about Enlightenment,,.. but does not the same principle exist?... the actual seeking is what keeps us away from being aligned and in the Present Moment Awareness where things can actually happen."

So as I understand it, your saying or Zen is saying - that we, from a personal perspective should not ask for anything specific. We could say, I ask that I receive whatever I need or to be guided towards a path that is right for my highest self? But in practical terms how do we incorporate this into our daily life. For most people do have to direct their lives in some way, if for no other reason to be able to work, or to take care of themselves and their families. But, isn't deciding to be a Zen monk a decision they made or goal they work towards. Or do they believe it just happens, without any conscious effort on their part?

I did like it when you said "Learning to consciously with intentionality and focus ASK and then ALSO learning to then LET GO and quietly listen, trust and receive from the Highest ,, in the Present is the full process to me." I can do that.

Love and light
Kaz

[aceofcups]

Kaz...Not sure Zen is saying:

"So as I understand it, your saying or Zen is saying - that we, from a personal perspective should not ask for anything specific. We could say, I ask that I receive whatever I need or to be guided towards a path that is right for my highest self? But in practical terms how do we incorporate this into our daily life. For most people do have to direct their lives in some way, if for no other reason to be able to work, or to take care of themselves and their families. But, isn't deciding to be a Zen monk a decision they made or goal they work towards. Or do they believe it just happens, without any conscious effort on their part?"


I was talking more about the principle and the energy that is created by Seeking in our being.  How one works with that if they believe it to be a true principle is more what i was reflecting on.   And I didn't say no conscious effort.. as in my last paragraph,,, it is learning how the full principle works out even in daily life from my understanding... was my sharing.

peace

[sparklekaz]

Hi Ace,

Sorry about that. It was late when I read your post and somehow got stuck in the same mindset as seeing spiritual princples of intention and letting go as being confusing and contradictory. Having re read it again this morning, I see more clearly now, what you were trying to say.

You said "Intentionality, strength of one's ability to mentally and emotionally focus .. and any karmic energy adjustments and one's alignment with one's higher self and its blueprints all have a part it making things happen or not happening. Also true alignment with ones Soul and Spirit also have s part of equation. Reasons why something is trying to be created is combined with intentionality process and can alter results also."

The key words there are "True alignment with one's soul and spirit (highest good) combined with intentionality process." So it is a mix, and depending on where we are at in terms of personal/emotional/spiritual growth, will affect how closely aligned we are to what our highest self needs - as opposed to what we want as human beings to the degree in which we are still influenced by ego/attachment. Have I got that right?

You explained yourself very clearly Ace. I was like one of those blind men, only seeing one part of the elephant.

Love and light
Kaz

[aceofcups]

Hello Kaz... from one Elephant to Another..lol


I was just finishing adding a line at end of my last post and am now reading this,,,

yes.. that was some of key points I was trying to say what you wrote. And also learning to be Quiet and Listen with as much intent as we put into our desires or wants.

But also we have to realize some of our wants and desires do come from personality and not our higher self and sometimes happen in times of desperation... or thinking in terms of desperation, as you seemed to imply, if I got you correctly.... which makes one get into a treadmill of thoughts and emotional feelings and desires with little real effect...

In the treadmill mentality one is not able to quiet their mind's and emotions and LISTEN and TRUST ,,, the interface of their own spiritual parts of their being has gotten clouded over and the energy link is weak or at times unplugged.

Learning to work with oneself via meditation, prayer or other forms to strengthen our interface... SOMETIMES allows us to successfully journey through those more difficult periods in our life.

Sometimes we have energy knots or complexes within our psyche ( our tests and lessons - ie karma) in which one faces seems to have no easy answer or no tried activity seems to suffice... those are times of hard learning,, but they do give a deeper learning experience.

We are all Spiritual being in the making.

peace
aceofcups