Fear And Control

[sparklekaz]

One of my favourite quotes is by Alice Walker who said " The most common way people give away 'their power' is by thinking, they don't have any". It is so true isn't it. And nowhere is this more apparent I believe, as when we give in to fear. Fear of the unknown or fear instilled in us by another person. So I wanted to share with you a short story told by Pema Chodrun, which I felt illustrated this point really well, and gave me a 'Aah Haa' moment.

"Once there was a young warrior. Her teacher told her that she had to do battle with fear. She didn’t want to do that. It seemed too aggressive; it was scary; it seemed unfriendly. But the teacher said she had to do it and gave her the instructions for the battle. The day arrived. The student warrior stood on one side, and fear stood on the other. The warrior was feeling very small, and fear was looking big and wrathful. They both had their weapons. The young warrior roused herself and went toward fear, prostrated three times, and asked, "May I have permission to go into battle with you?" Fear said, "Thank you for showing me so much respect that you ask permission." Then the young warrior said, "How can I defeat you?" Fear replied, "My weapons are that I talk fast, and I get very close to your face. Then you get completely unnerved, and you do whatever I say. If you don’t do what I tell you, I have no power. You can listen to me, and you can have respect for me. You can even be convinced by me. But if you don’t do what I say, I have no power." In that way, the student warrior learned how to defeat fear. ” Pema Chödrön

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi kaz,

I like what you talk about fear. It’s so true and deep. Here from your old post:

“…someone else uses to intimidate, frighten, control and subdue. In life people do this a lot. They use or play on the fears, vulnerabilities of other's to get their own way. If you can overcome that fear, or detach yourself from the emotion that another holds over you, you can free yourself from whatever it is that holds you fast. By doing this we take away the power they hold over us…”

I have seen this a lot in the real life situations. People use fear to manipulate and control others, even to gain love! Boss to employees, husband to wife (or vice versa) even parent to their own kids!
Confrontation might not that easy. And sometimes, walking away is not an option. As for a spiritual understanding, I think the more we “see through” this, the more we have less fear. For example, if we could see that the people who use fear to control others, it’s just because they are afraid of something, of being rejected (somehow they knew they would be rejected if they lost their control.) They have to use “fear” to gain control all the time because they are afraid of losing that power over others. They cannot bear with that truth. This is so sad about them.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Monty,

It is easy to understand the mental 'games people play'. The hard part is, detaching from the emotional hold. Because this is something that is about you, not them. You can see that they know what buttons to press, to get the 'fear reaction'. Even though we can understand why someone does this to another, and feel compassion. It does not change the situation. If someone has been subjected to this 'power play' for a long period of time, it will erode their self confidence. And the fear grows like a wild beast, much harder to tame.

It would be very interesting to hear from others if they have ever found themselves in this type of situation. How did they deal with it. Did you eventually overcome fear and take control back? What did you learn from this situation. What coping techniques did you use. Did you come to a point in your lives, when the fear of continuing as things were, forced you to confront the issues you had been hiding from or avoiding? What is your philosophy of life towards fear? Something for you all to think about, and hopefully respond to.

Love and light
Kaz

[luvnlite]

Hi Kaz, great topic! As a person who deals with anxieties of all sorts, this is an encouraging post. I really like the story and how "Fear" says it has no real power over me if I do or don't do what it is telling me. It's a concept that is intellectually easy to grasp, but it can be a long distance between the brain and the heart so it's still sometimes so confusing and frustrating.

Also, you and Monty discussing why other people thrive on putting fear into others is very helpful. Again, it's a long trip from the head to the heart, but to keep hearing it helps it sink in a little more each time. I was so afraid of so many things while growing up, I sometimes find it hard to believe that I'm still around. I don't mean to be morbid, but fear of life takes a nasty hold sometimes.

I'm so grateful I've found this room/forum. It has become one of my coping mechanisms ... finally a positive one For a long time, alcohol was my coping tool. Also, out of fear of being alone, I ended up in some very dangerous relationships. Not great coping skills, but it was all I knew. But for the grace of God, I'm still around and feel like things may be turning for the better. Just sometimes seems like an impossibly slow process.

I'm thankful that now my coping tools are meditation, dance (just silly dancing around, nothing formal), comedies, spiritual reading/practice ... and life is much more pleasant when I remember to utilize these things. I'm by FAR, not perfect at it and sometimes I feel like I'm slipping right back into fear and depression, but having other people to be able to relate to has been a God send for me. One other important way I find to help me through these times is helping others. Gets me out of myself and my problems ... and I always feel better, even if it's just a little bit.

Thanks so much for this post! Ya made my day

namaste
Donna

[luvnlite]

PS ... Monty, I love your little kitty in the hammock

[donq]

Hi Donna,

Good to see you again.

Your brave encourages me to tell the following story of my life which I was afraid to tell. Now I’m not afraid to tell any more. Thank to you. :-)

As you already knew about my divorce (s), I will try to make the long short here. My first divorce, after 10 years of marriage, she was the one who asked for divorce. And the reason was so clear, I was in the economic crisis and she didn’t want to acknowledge about that. So, though it was a worldly painful, but not much spiritual painful. But on my second divorce, well…
This time my marriage lasted 12 years. The reason for divorce was not about money but cheating which brought to divorce. I don’t want to take sides on myself here, but it’s suffice to say that I already asked her if she wanted to start over again, she said yes, but a few months later, she cheated on me again, with another man. lol (Now I really feel funny to tell this but that time it was not so funny at all.)
As I was grown up in the very strict family, drinking alcohol never be allowed to anyone. I had never drank for almost 45 years. Yes, once in a while, I drank, just for a social occasion but never really drank. (I don’t mean to say that drinking alcohol is bad. I know, with a reasonable amount/quantity, it may be good for health but that’s not my point here.) Anyway, back to my story, soon after my second divorce I had to really drank for a while because of my fear! I was so afraid to face with the truth. I tried so hard to find hundreds of reason to justify my ex’s action, even she had to divorce because her new boyfriend forced her to do that! (yes, very stupid me, that time, you may say. Hahaha.) It was just so hard for me to believe that I never really known her at all. How could I never known someone who had been my wife for 12 years?
Yes, alcohol did help me that time, but in the wrong way. It froze the truth, covered up my fear. I was too afraid to accept the truth about her. Whenever looked back to that time (it was 6-7 years ago), I was so ashamed of myself. I used alcohol just to support my cowardice. And the worst thing was, during that time my spiritual awareness was so down, not because of my divorce but because of drinking alcohol! (I even lost some of my spiritual ability (telepathy) that time and I hardly got it back. 

I told this story to confess/share my mistake, not to dramatize my story. Please don’t get me wrong.

[sparklekaz]

Dear Donna and Monty,

Thank you both so much for sharing your stories. The over riding thing that comes through for me is, the lengths we will all go to to numb the pain of our feelings. Or to avoid facing the thing that we fear the most. To the point where we end up putting ourselves into situations that can be as bad for us, as the very thing we are trying to avoid - not think about.

Scott M Peck wrote in his book 'The Road Less Travelled' (a book that has helped me a lot) "Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult - once we truly understand and accept it - then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.

What makes life difficult, is that the process of confronting and solving problems is a painful one. Problems, depending upon their nature, evoke in us frustration or grief or sadness or loneliness or guilt or regret or anger or fear or anguish or despair.

These are uncomfortable feelings, very uncomfortable and often as painful as any physical pain, sometimes equaling the very worst kind of physical pain. It is because of this pain that the events or conflicts they engender inside us that we call them problems. Yet it is in this whole process of meeting and solving problems that life has its meaning. Problems call forth our courage and our wisdom. It is because of our problems that we grow mentally and spiritually".

Very wise words and so true. But as we have already said, knowing something on an intellectual level and using that insight to help ourselves, seems to need another kind of knowing - understanding, so that it gets to the 'root' of why we react - behave as we do. One thing I think I've come to realize, is that strong feelings, painful thoughts, need something equally strong to blot it out. And so people turn to alcohol, drugs, addictive co dependent relationships. Anything that will stop us from looking closely at ourselves. Try to remember that there was a time - before the failed or toxic relationships, that you were happy. That you didn't need the love, or approval of 'someone else' to make you feel complete. A time before you were hurt/disappointed when life was full of infinite potential. Today is as good a day as any, to 'scrub yourself clean', to start afresh. To let go of our drama's, our history and old habits. Old negative ways of thinking, and go back to how things were before.

Donna.. depression can be inssidious. Learn to observe yourself and how your thinking starts to change when you feel yourself sliding into that negative state. Stop it dead. Distract yourself. Remember that you are a beautiful, kind, giving sensitive women. Focus on the beauty in your life, your family and the many blessings you have. Don't punish yourself anymore.

Donq (Monty), you are a very warm hearted, kind sensitive man, who would rather blame yourself for things going wrong, then face the emotional/spiritual immaturity of others. I truely believe our relationships with others are our greatest teachers. And your marriages were an important part of your life/soul growth. You cannot try to get into the head of someone else, or understand their insecurities or what drives them. Being a very spiritual person of course you will try. I know, I've been there. It's impossible to do. Human beings are so multi faceted. And things happen to people that shape the people they become. They have to realize for themselves that the life they are leading will not make them happy. They too are looking for quick fix, instant gratification to take away their deep unhappiness. Its an old cliche I know. But though we like to think it's us, and torture ourselves over it. It really, is 'all about them'.

I've noticed, empathic, sensitive people always feel they have to 'fix other's'. That to abandon them is wrong, because it's not what we do. But down that path lies self destruction. Don't blame yourselves that things went wrong. Don't self sabotage future chances of happiness, through believing that you don't deserve to be happy. You do, and there are lots of people out there who will appreciate the beauty, honesty and truly spiritual people that you both are. Be happy, and let go of the pain of the past. Focus on the future, which is bright for both of you. I think you are both truly lovely people, with big, big hearts. I love you both. I will finish with the words of Hafiz, as he expresses for me most eloquently, how I see you two. "I wish I could show you, When you are lonely or in darkness, The astonishing light of your own being". You both shine like star's to me. You have been, and still are, even more so, a beacon of light for others.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

I can sense the friendly, kind, compassionate and good intention in every word of yours. They were really healing words!
Thanks from my heart, Karen.

P.S. Two thumbs up with this post of yours. It's so great until I don't have a word to say.

[luvnlite]

Wow Monty & Kaz! You've both given me a beautiful start to the day. Thank you! I'm so fortunate to have found this forum & it's wonderful members!

Monty, I'm so glad you felt alright posting your story. I think somehow, once we get it written out and shared with a few people, it helps us to look back on it all with a different perspective. It helps us to see that we did indeed survive some of what we felt were the worst times of our lives. And not only did we survive, but we grew ... learned and moved on. Thank you so much for trusting and sharing. You're helping my journey as well! Bless you, my friend!

Kaz, my goodness you're such an eloquent writer/speaker/person. My heart melted as I read your post & I appreciate your kind words filled with love & sincerity. As Monty said, you've managed to render me somewhat speechless ( and that is NOT an easy trick lol) with the kindness you offer. You hit home with everything you said, and I'm going to spend some time really thinking about it. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Have a blessed day!
Donna

[baangus]

Jun 25, 2014 10:02:39 GMT sparklekaz said:

It is easy to understand the mental 'games people play'. The hard part is, detaching from the emotional hold. Because this is something that is about you, not them. You can see that they know what buttons to press, to get the 'fear reaction'. Even though we can understand why someone does this to another, and feel compassion. It does not change the situation. If someone has been subjected to this 'power play' for a long period of time, it will erode their self confidence. And the fear grows like a wild beast, much harder to tame.

It would be very interesting to hear from others if they have ever found themselves in this type of situation. How did they deal with it. Did you eventually overcome fear and take control back? What did you learn from this situation. What coping techniques did you use. Did you come to a point in your lives, when the fear of continuing as things were, forced you to confront the issues you had been hiding from or avoiding? What is your philosophy of life towards fear? Something for you all to think about, and hopefully respond to.

Hi Kaz. I spent a couple of decades employed in a spiritual community where the mental games took on a different tone. One was forced to view certain leaders as more spiritually aware, and therefore more capable of knowing what was spiritually best for the rest of us. The thing was, what these leaders often (usually) decided, was of direct benefit to them and not the community. I became sick over the years fighting this deceit; people who saw me as a disrespectful troublemaker would project their negative energy on me.

By the time I left that community I was suffering from anxiety depression, self-esteem issues and other physical problems. There was no possible way I could have dealt with the issue without removing myself from it. The depression alone made it impossible to take any steps that would help gain back control of that situation. So in my case, I had to recreate my life. I gave up my career, I disconnected from the spiritual philosophy (and all specific philosophies), I moved thousands of miles away, and I started a whole new life for myself. That's how I took control back. I became "me" again. My focus was on me and my health and my life, and whatever it was I, and not some spiritual guru or community, decided it needed to be.

What did I learn, in retrospect after years of reflecting on things? That I was responsible for what happened. I made those choices. I allowed people to control my space and even my spiritual outlook. And never again, that's the happy, health-manifesting lesson I've learned.  

Fear is easy to face when one is secure within themselves, that's what I experience now. I had to get my self-esteem back. I did that by creating a life that I was happy in, which in turn lead to healing me physically and psychically. Once all that fell into place, I found I could deal with any issues that come up in my life. The opposite of fear is love, and I've committed to loving life and seeing the world and universe as entirely benevolent (easy to do now). That life outlook dissipates any fear pretty quickly.

[sparklekaz]

Hi Baangus,

I can relate to what you have said, as to a lesser degree some years ago I too belonged to a 'spiritual group'. Led by a very charistmatic person. Bar one male member, the group was entirely made up of women. That in itself isn't surprising really, as in general women tend to be more drawn to this type of setting. In the sense that they are the ones who are most open to it. The interesting thing was that even though sometimes men did attend, they would fall away quite quickly. Initially I thought it was because it was 'just not their thing'. But gradually I came to realize it was because the 'male' leader of our group, preferred women to men, and seemed to find a way of 'putting them off'. I believe it was because we were deemed by him as being easier to manipulate. Men seem to see through that tendency in other men, far quicker than women do.

It was no accident that most of us had became part of the group because we had received counselling or help from him, in his other guise of priest and counsellor. Then would be 'invited' to join this select group. Which he thought would be beneficial for us. We were all very sensitive and empathic. The focus of the group was primarily a healing and self growth group. So on the surface, it was very helpful. I did learn a lot from my time within it. But.. we were told what to read, what to discuss, and strongly discouraged from listening to or attending workshops by other spiritual teachers and healers. If anyone repeatedly disagreed or challenged him, they would be forced out, and ostracized by the rest of the group. Even though many of the women were aware of this, they were so enamoured of him and under his influence, they were all petrified of being the next person to be rejected, pushed out that they would keep quiet.

It is hard to describe how addictive this came to be. How easily you can allow someone else to suppress your will and common sense. Other things happened, which I wont go into, suffice to say that he took advantage of his position and the regard he was held in, to take liberties that were inappropriate. I had already been questioning and feeling uncomfortable. I think the only reason I hadn't been pushed out was because A) I knew too much and B) he held a 'special affection' for me. It took a lot for me to leave, and for a long time afterwards I felt I had tuo fight the urge to beg to be taken back. It was a very difficult time for me, and any progress I'd made with my anxiety problems had just been replaced by something else. I vowed I would never give up my will to another or allow myself to be so mentally dominated again. Fear can be inssidious. It is not always clear cut. There are many things we can be fearful of. And loss of will to another is one of the worst situations to be in.

How did you manage to find the courage to leave your spiritual community, leave everything behind and start again with nothing? I think it is always easier to be strong, when you've 'regained' your independence and put distance between you and what was. Distance as in time as well as mileage. But when someone is in the throes of a difficult situation, and their self esteem and will has been eroded. It is a much more difficult task. For some I know it can be a gradual build up, to the point that they've had enough. Or it can be something small that acts as a catalyst. The straw that breaks the camel's back.

Love and light
Kaz

[donq]

Hi b. and kaz,

I have worked late tonight and wanted to post something before going to sleep.

Mencius, an ancient Chinese philosopher (372 – 289 BC) asserted the innate goodness of the individual, believing that it was society's influence – its lack of a positive cultivating influence – that caused bad moral character.
While another ancient Chinese philosopher, Xunzi (312–230 BC) believed that man's inborn tendencies (is bad) need to be curbed through education and ritual, counter to Mencius's view that man is innately good.
I’m no philosopher, so I really don’t know which one was right. Recently, I believe that what makes a man becomes bad is his slow learning? (I don’t mean in an ironic sense but something about his EQ). He’s not a real bad, just doesn’t know, cannot know and/or don’t know how to control his badness.

Nah! Please forget about all I’ve just wrote above. It's boring, I know.

Thanks both of you for sharing something extraordinary here. It reminds me of this quote:

“It's a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it.”
- W.Somerset Maugham

This place, this forum seems to be more and more sacred!

Will be back to read b.’s answer tomorrow. Really feel sleepy now. Goodnight.

P.S. If it was 40 years ago, I would say, “Let’s gather our friends here and go back to bombard them!”

[baangus]

Jul 1, 2014 15:03:04 GMT sparklekaz said:

How did you manage to find the courage to leave your spiritual community, leave everything behind and start again with nothing?

Hi Kaz. Thanks for sharing that. Leaving was easy for me, I was fully aware of what my participation in that community had done to me and was thankful to finally see the light. My willpower and ability to think straight was shot as a result of the depression, that's true. But I've had a number of instances in my life where my higher self has kicked in during such times, and guided me via what I would call revelation awareness. It's a state of oneness with the situation, similar to what one must experience as a child I imagine. Nothing matters - emotion, worry and fear dissolves completely. Everything just is, and in that state of absolute acceptance, and without the baggage of worry and fear, there is now space to move and to be the primal soul one actually is. Think Scottish warriors, woad-smeared faces and war-shouts. All death means is that a new life is about to start.

donq, that was a great post. The W.Somerset Maugham quote is spot on, so very true.