How we die.

[donq]

Our forum is a bit quiet. Let me write something here. I never wrote about this before, even in the books I wrote (in my language.) I’ve always felt that it’s too personal. Somehow this forum make me feel a bit comfortable to share it here.
First of all, please forgive me for my bad English.
Normally I don’t like to write anything in a serious style, but this topic I have to. Anyway, I will not talk about spiritual aspect here, only about physical/feeling aspect when we are going to die.
Let me skip the part why I was in ICU for 2 months and died for a while (it was too long story.) I will focus only the feeling when I died.
You may know the feeling when sometimes you cannot control/move your body at all. I’m sorry that I really don’t know how to call it in English (a suffocating feeling while asleep, something like that, maybe.) Your mind/consciousness is awake, but you cannot “command” any part of your body to move an inch as usual.
But when we are going to die, our situations are worse than that. Maybe you still can move some part of your body, but there will be some vicious vibration/shaking (not literally, just your feeling) trying to expel the only consciousness you have out of your body.
As I came from Buddhist tradition/practice, we were taught to prepare about this situation. I mean we have to “practice” to die before we really die (die beforehand) so that it will not be too hard when we are really going to die. (The well known book on this is “Tibetan books of dead” which have so many versions on the market.)
To make a long short, we cling to our bodies all our lives. It become our worst habit. So, when we are going to die (because our bodies cannot be used any more from our terminal conditions), we will fight so hard NOT to leave our bodies. But the more we fight, we more we will die harder and more sufferings. Please don’t confuse it with the will to live. If our bodies are still not terminal, sometimes our mind can win, and we can be alive. Or even sometimes, if, and only if, we have a very strong will to live, we also can win. But here I meant only when our bodies are really not to be functioned any more. You may get an idea now.
I share this just to tell you that there’s nothing to be afraid of. And if you believe in reincarnation, it will be more easy for you to leave your body when your time comes.
Ok, hope I wake our forum a bit from a silence.

[cyberangel]

Thank you Monty for sharing this. I hope to also add to this post soon.

Love and Light

[Ishtahota]

When my father died, it took him about a month to come back to visit my wife and I. We asked him what it was like to die and he said that it was no more trouble then walking through a door. The hardest part for him was on this side of death, the not knowing. We have always seen the body like a shirt or a car. we wear it out and we take it off or we get out of it and we move on. Having conscious contact with the other side lessens any fear that we may have had.

[cyberangel]

Hi Monty

This is the second time I have wrote this post, as the first time it all disappeared off my screen so I feel there was information in there that was not meant to be shared, so I take it as a sign. So I will re-write the experience what I think I can share with you and anyone else that is interested.

About 4-6 weeks before my father passed I was at mass (church service) and before the service started you kneel and reflect, so while I was kneeling and quietening my mind, I clearly heard a voice and it said:

“Remember, Death is nothing”

I immediately heard my father’s voice in the choir chatting among his friends and I knew that I was being prepared. I started to cry into my hands and beg for more time with my dad.

Of course life goes on and I soon forgot the message, until 4-6 weeks later I was spoken to again. It was one night i was watching tv and I heard “Check on your dad” So I thought I will give him a call during the tv ad break...a few moments later “Lorraine, check on your DAD” ok this got my attention so I got my phone and rang dad’s house, no answer. so I rang his mobile, again no answer. I got up and looked from my window down towards my dad’s house. I could clearly see his van was there so I knew he was home so as I was about to redial his number I heard a stern voice say “GO SEE YOUR DAD”. I ran and got my keys and I knew something was wrong.

When I found dad he was semi-conscious and lying on the floor and had had a major stroke, broke his arm in the fall and his head was all cut from him pulling a sheet of glass on top of him (the memory of this is still extremely painful so I will leave all the other details out if you don’t mind) lets just say my dad was in a tremendous amount of pain. While in hospital I was shown what dad was experiencing, his memories, his life’s journey, his joys, the people he had met. I was able to ‘feel’ this while watching him lie there in the bed. I was telling my family what I was experiencing and they also were having experiences of their own.

On the 6th day my dad’s body died. I cannot even tell you how difficult that was to witness the end of his physical presence, but yet to feel the relief that his pain was over. We were all so numb, exhausted and heartbroken. We kissed him goodbye. We had his funeral which seemed so fast and a complete blur. We had a traditional Irish wake for dad. It feels like a dream now when I think about it and the days following. Grief is such an experience in itself. Anyway approx. 3-4 weeks after dad had died, a consciousness (not dad’s) came through to me.

I was shown dad’s actual death...meaning what dad experienced as he passed over. I saw him walking down the hospital corridor with (3 tall white beings) and he looks back towards us sat around his bed with his body, although he doesn’t seem to see his body and he asks the white ones “Are they (meaning us) coming?” and the white ones spoke to his consciousness and said not at this time and dad just say’s “ok” and walks away with them. I was told that dad does not know he is dead, but is extremely happy where he is. I was also told that dad is unaware of our grief and pain as it would not help him and delay him in understanding and accepting his death.

I was shown dad in the afterlife as a physical being but made of ‘LIGHT’ and dad was also viewing himself as this lighter physical being. From what I can understand it helps with the death transition. Dad met up with lots of people I did not know but he clearly did. He was happy to see them and surprised to meet them there, but was enjoying catching up with them again. There is much more but I feel that information is not to be shared here right now, maybe it is for another time, I don’t know so i will leave it out, better to say too little than to say too much.

Anyway, roughly about a month after that experience, dad finally comes through to my consciousness. He seems different. More knowledgeable but same dad. He assures me that he is happy and well. As I’m sure you can imagine, after I gather myself and stop crying, I ask him loads of questions. He talks mainly about me and the family and tells us what we must do. He gives me a short brief personal message for each of us which I delivered to all members. He is aware now that he has died and has accepted it but is also aware of our pain. He tells us all to stop punishing ourselves and feeling guilty for something that we had no control over. He shared a lot with me but nothing that will hinder my own life experience. It was more guidance and assurance.

There is much more but I feel that is only for my understanding so I will not share that here, but I just wanted to share my experience of death without actually dying myself. I have no fear of death, I never have. But I have a knowledge now that I did not know before. I don’t hear dad as often as I did but I still know he is ‘around’ and can hear me. I feel extremely blessed and thankful for this wonderful gift that was shared with me. Of course I want to know more and want dad to tell me more but unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. But one thing I can tell you is, I have never felt as happy as I do now, don’t get me wrong I still do and probably will always miss the physical presence of my dad, but I KNOW where my dad is and that life does indeed go on there is a wonderful comfort in that knowledge alone.

Love and Light

PS.  This experience is what I was trying to express in my poem that I wrote on the forum.

[donq]

Hi Ishtahota,

Thanks for your post. I appreciate that.


Hi angel,

I respect every words you share us. Thank so much.
It expressed a bit sad but joy, too, a very well balance of your feelings.
I will reread this again and reply to you later.
Thanks again for sharing this to our friends and I here.

[donq]

Hi angel,

First, let me tell you that what I’m going to say is based on 3 important things:

1. I will not lie. I cannot lie as it’s against spiritual practice.
2. I will not pretend. I don’t like pretending.
3. I have to skip something if it’s (only) my personal believing (not because I don’t want to share, just it’s too sensitive to share.)

Though I’m sure that I will not fail about 1 and 2, but as this is a very sensitive personal issue, and I have to say it in the language that is not mine, so please forgive me if I failed on 3. And I do apologize in advance.

What I meant by “I don’t like pretending” goes both ways. I don’t like to pretend to say something I don’t believe (because that will be a lie.) And “don’t like” also means it’s hard to talk to someone who is pretending (I mean only in the context that I care about their feelings, not my feeling.) For example, someone pretends all the time that he’s ok, when everyone knows that he’s not. I don’t like this because I worry/care about his feeling (pretending) would hurt himself.

Sorry for a bit long prologue.

Your words were so honest and sincere without any pretending at all. You “told” that you would not tell something when you felt you hesitated to tell (or could not tell.) You told that you had to skip something that might bring your painful memories back. All of these were the very good sign of spiritual balance. You knew yourself/feelings very well.

And you are more mature now, I can tell. You love to learn. And you know yourself that you are stronger.

I just watched some TV series. The wife told her husband who loved her so much and tried his best to repay her love:

“After I’m gone, you can repay me by living your life so well and be happy!”

Maybe this saying already become a cliché but its meaning is still a truth.

P.S. Sorry for any typo. I really feel sleepy now. :-)

[cyberangel]

Hi Monty,

Thank you so much for your genuine caring and thoughtful words. I wish I was able to write more as a thank you but unfortunately my Uncle was rushed into hospital early this morning so its been all go here, and we're exhausted now. I hope to catch up with you again soon. I hope to listen to your chosen songs sometime later or tomorrow my friend.

take care and chat soon

Love and Light

[donq]

Hi angel,

(Take your time and take care.)
  
The topic below may divert from this thread a bit but it’s worth to talk about it (later).
I always have been fascinated by the way we, as human, communicate to each other, especially by nonverbal communication. When I was a kid, every time one of my school teacher just looked at me, I froze and had to behave myself immediately even she had not said anything yet.
You may ever read about the following story, The Hundredth Monkey. Though some critics tried to prove that it was unauthentic. I will not bother you with that details and will get to my point below.

The Japanese monkey, Macaca fuscata, has been observed in the wild for a period of over 30 years. In 1952, on the island of Koshima scientists were providing monkeys with sweet potatoes dropped in the sand. The monkeys liked the taste of the raw sweet potatoes, but they found the dirt unpleasant.
An 18-month-old female named Imo found she could solve the problem by washing the potatoes in a nearby stream. She taught this trick to her mother. Her playmates also learned this new way and they taught their mothers, too.
This cultural innovation was gradually picked up by various monkeys before the eyes of the scientists. Between 1952 and 1958, all the young monkeys learned to wash the sandy sweet potatoes to make them more palatable. Only the adults who imitated their children learned this social improvement. Other adults kept eating the dirty sweet potatoes.
Then something startling took place. In the autumn of 1958, a certain number of Koshima monkeys were washing sweet potatoes — the exact number is not known. Let us suppose that when the sun rose one morning there were 99 monkeys on Koshima Island who had learned to wash their sweet potatoes. Let’s further suppose that later that morning, the hundredth monkey learned to wash potatoes. THEN IT HAPPENED!
By that evening almost everyone in the tribe was washing sweet potatoes before eating them. The added energy of this hundredth monkey somehow created an ideological breakthrough!
But notice. The most surprising thing observed by these scientists was that the habit of washing sweet potatoes then spontaneously jumped over the sea — Colonies of monkeys on other islands and the mainland troop of monkeys at Takasakiyama began washing their sweet potatoes!*
Thus when a certain critical number achieves an awareness, this new awareness may be communicated from mind to mind. Although the exact number may vary, the Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon means that when only a limited number of people know of a new way, it may remain the consciousness property of these people. But there is a point at which if only one more person tunes in to a new awareness, a field is strengthened so that this awareness reaches almost everyone!
(-from The Hundredth Monkey by Ken Keyes, Jr.)

What fascinate me is how far we, as human being, can communicate to each other. I read somewhere that it has no limit. One astronaut on the moon even could communicate with someone on the earth via his mind. Again, telepathy or not, is still not my (direct) point here.
I’m fascinated by the way some people can know that their beloved one are in danger even they live in long distant places from each other. I know some couple, a wife could feel the physical same pain her husband got. Not to mention about twin, or the incredible bond between a mother and her kid. etc. Yes, I know, an old vine in the new bottle: premonition, precognition, sixth sense etc.
Please don’t get me wrong. I myself have experienced about this paranormal communication so many times in my life. But somehow, after reading so many books about it (the “old age” books seem to be more authentic) I still feel that we didn’t go any further at all. Or there’s nothing new under this sun? :-)   
 

[cyberangel]

Hi again Monty

I really enjoyed reading this. Many a time RT and Ace tried to explain the 99 monkey's story to me in chat but because chat moves so fast and I have only a simple mind, I was unable to fully understand them and what they were trying to explain.

I so enjoyed reading this because it makes very good study and awakens lots of questions inside. I love to learn and I am like a sponge I try and soak up all the information but alas I am more holes than sponge lol so I also lose a lot of information.

I always remember my poor science teacher saying to me in front of the whole class "I can't work out if you are a genius or just trying to disrupt the class" You see, I was forever asking questions of my poor teachers, and they would no sooner answer one and I would have another ready.

I really was not trying to disrupt their classes I just had so many questions and sometimes I could hardly wait to get to class to ask them. After my teacher said that and the kids laughed at me I never asked another question in class, I guess I felt like an idiot although I knew I wasn't. I get very passionate about things that interest me and I can’t wait to ask and share.

Sorry for going on too much...now what was my point??? lol...ah yes my point was that this has made me think of many questions...from tipping points to freewill and many more. I will try and come back to this when I can make some order of the questions in my head LOL.

This is what I really enjoy about this forum that many can challenge you and open your mind to explore things you may have never heard of before. Or to hear some things so many times but it only takes one to explain it simply for you, so you too can become involved. I love the written word but some posts and people, I find myself tripping up over every word and still not able to understand what the heck they were talking about.

As I said, I have a simple (but I hope open) mind and I love to learn. I left school at 16 with no qualifications, no exams and no grades I felt so cheated and sad. Why I left school is for another time and for another thread. But my love of learning is still very much alive.

Now in response to your post...Thank you again Monty for sharing this and I can see the reason you did and that is why I love it, because it challenges me to explore that which I thought I was so sure of, and possibly still am, but now I must explore every avenue and come to a conclusion if possible, or not as the case may be, but at least it has stirred up a new thirst for discovery.

I hope I have not gone on too long, I just wanted to explain why I enjoyed this so much and why I am so very grateful.

Love and Light

[donq]

Hi angel,

“As I said, I have a simple (but I hope open) mind and I love to learn. I left school at 16 with no qualifications, no exams and no grades I felt so cheated and sad. Why I left school is for another time and for another thread. But my love of learning is still very much alive.”

- Thank from my heart for sharing this. You were so honest and sincere. So, it’s my turn now. I never gone abroad all my life. And I have had to study English by heart, by myself, and still learning (as for my English writing, maybe forever? :-) The thing was, even when I went to study Law, any law student had nothing to do with English at all. That time who could speak English was more than smart, not to mention about reading or writing. But, yes, today it already changed a lot here. My point is don’t feel sad about it. Let me put it in this way, though it’s true that every native English speaker can speak English but this doesn’t mean about writing. That’s why there are only some, not all, who can write novel. (I used to write articles for weekly/monthly newspapers/magazines without problem but never finished my first novel yet. And maybe never finish it all my life. hahaha) [my books were only nonfiction]
 
You are so good in expressing your thought in writing, that’s what I want to say. Not everyone can do that. :-)
    
More than that, it has nothing to do with spiritual learning at all.This reminds me of a story below: :-)

A GRAMMARIAN once embarked in a boat. Turning to the boatman with a self-satisfied air he asked him:
‘Have you ever studied grammar?’
‘No,’ replied the boatman.
‘Then half your life has gone to waste,’ the grammarian said.
The boatman thereupon felt very depressed, but he answered him nothing for the moment. Presently the wind tossed the boat into a whirlpool. The boatman shouted to the grammarian:
‘Do you know how to swim?’
‘No’ the grammarian replied, ‘my well-spoken, handsome fellow’.
‘In that case, grammarian,’ the boatman remarked, ‘the whole of your life has gone to waste, for the boat is sinking in these whirlpools.’
(From “Tales from Masnavi” – Rumi wisdom)

Now in response to your post...Thank you again Monty for sharing this and I can see the reason you did and that is why I love it, because it challenges me to explore that which I thought I was so sure of, and possibly still am, but now I must explore every avenue and come to a conclusion if possible, or not as the case may be, but at least it has stirred up a new thirst for discovery.

-Hmm…let me take another step to clear the air between our discussions. I had no hidden motive. I don’t like “indirect” suggestion. No matter how powerful it is, it’s still against spiritual manner. Suffice to say that what you thought was sure, is really real and true for you. Don’t doubt about that in yourself. It’s just I have another explanation (only for myself and myself only) but both of us agree that what you experienced were real. Then, we will talk further from this point, ok? :-)   
So, if I’m going to  tell you that what came to warn you was an Angel. So did those light creatures. You have to know that I didn’t pretend or lie to you (by hiding my true believing.) I just talk to you in your terms/words for mutual understanding. I know for sure that every subjective perceptions/sensations are real. I never doubt about that.  

[donq]

Hi angel,

Let me clarify something a bit. Why is “subjective” perception/sensation so real (to that person.) For example, if someone never got a broken heart, he/she would never understand how real it is and always wonder, a heart is not a glass, how can it be broken? :-) [Yes, and that’s only other part of reality, objective one.]

There’s a quote from a famous Scottish psychiatrist (which it rather become cliché now):  

“ Mystics and schizophrenics find themselves in the same ocean, but the mystics swim whereas the schizophrenics drown.”
-R.D. Laing

A schizophrenic is a person who cannot deal with this kind of perception in himself. For example, he heard someone talking in his head etc. But as for a spiritual person, he knows that his perception is real, even it’s only his subjective perception and other persons will not believe him.
Yes, there are also another factors involved, too. It’s called “double bind” situation (coined by Gregory Bateson.) I will not bother you with its details here, just a short version of it. When we are in the dilemma situations, cannot choose both right AND left, we are in the “double bind” situation (either way we chose will be doom.) This can bring us to schizophrenic state. But lucky for us that, a spiritual way is the very answer. You might already heard/read about stories in Zen (Zen koan). Go beyond dilemma!  :-)

Let’s go back to this thread. Here’s some of my questions for you. How many times in your life you got this extraordinary perception? When did it start? (How old were you that time) And why? (any reason brought to that.)
Again, your perception was so true because it brought you to go to see your father. Don’t ever have doubt in yourself about this. :-)

P.S. Again, this is just my talking, no hidden suggestion. I think if we can figure out about this perception, it would help ourselves and other in danger one day. Take your time to reply. I meant only when you have time to do it. :-)   

[cyberangel]

Hi Monty

Thank you again for your time and kind words as always

Please my friend, in response I hope you did not think that I was insinuating that you had a hidden meaning to your first reply, as I certainly did not. What I meant was that I could see where you were also coming from as in your perception. I also wasn't doubting my experience either, more questioning myself as to why I did not explore the source behind it, if you get me. Oh I fully know and accept that it was a genuine experience but I also need to open my mind to all the other factors, and not just go by the experience alone, which is what your post made me realise.

I also sincerely respect your honesty and your openness, and enjoy reading as well as value both yours and others insight. I also really appreciate your sincerity along with your encouraging words in relation to my writing. I think you along with a few others (Kaz being one of them), the reason you like my writing is because I truly write from my heart, as I've noticed it’s my heart written posts that appeal to you both, and the words I use just flow out so freely, but the posts written from my head space are more...let me use the term ‘logical or observational’ and don’t have as much feeling in them, if you get me.

I am afraid to thank people too much or too little. If I go over the top and thank or praise too much I sometimes feel like I am mocked or that I come across as condescending, but I am also afraid that if I don’t let people know just how much I appreciate them and their time and energy, people will think I don’t care. I have been told so many times that once is enough to say thank you but I can’t help but express my thanks when someone can see my heart and is kind.

Now in reply to your 2nd post, I have only recently gone into some detail on when (5-6 years old) and how I first started receiving my experiences, along with going into a lot of detail on the experiences themselves, and they are in my thread ‘SEEKING BALANCE’ on the spiritual forum, but I stopped posting on that thread as I felt a little too vulnerable to go any further because I felt a certain person was just seeing it as a ‘light conversation’ rather than me fully and honestly exposing myself as a person and my experiences.

you see, I am so willing and open to share with anyone who wants to listen or who shows a genuine interest, and whether they believe me or not is not that important to me, but what is very important to me is to be shown respect for the person I am, and not have my genuine thanks mocked or belittled. I’m not saying it was this person’s intention to do that and indeed I am probably reading too much into the comment, but I can’t help the way it made me feel. Anyway all that really has nothing to do with you Monty but I just wanted you to understand, that if you do decide go and read the thread, why I did not continue afterwards, but I may continue one day.

In relation to schizophrenia I have an Uncle (the one in hospital at the moment) who is schizophrenic, so I know only too well. I was his carer for over 4 years and he lived with me, my husband and my son, and it was so difficult, previous to this he lived with my mother for also 4 years. Don’t get me wrong he is so lovely himself but his illness is just awful to live with, we have lived with his worst and best self. He now lives in a sheltered accommodation and was getting on well but has had a relapse in his mental health. Tomorrow we meet with his psychiatric team to discuss his future care plan. Anyway, I just wanted you to know I am fully aware and know the symptoms of schizophrenia, and can completely understand the differences between my ‘spiritual experiences’ and the experiences of that of a person with schizophrenia. Once again Monty, I sincerely thank you for your reply and I know there was no hidden meaning to it. I see you as honest and genuine as you hopefully see me, my friend.

Now in relation to the first reply above, I probably did not do a very good job at explaining myself so I take full responsibility in that and I hope I have cleared up any misunderstanding. Above all I did not want you to think that from anything you have said that I now doubt myself, as I do not, but I do like challenges and I felt that your perception of what I said was really good and it just got my curious juices flowing again. I am now laughing because as much as we can express ourselves on screen and by text, it is nothing to being able to see (as you said previously) the body language also of a person. I am smiling so kindly and sweetly at you Monty and I do hope you know how very grateful I truly am. I will leave it at that as I really want to try and get back on topic again lol. It’s funny how threads can seem to gather a life of their own

I will probably take a short break for now my friend as I’m sure you can appreciate that I have got a lot on (in relation to my uncle etc) and I am worried about him and his future but hopefully tomorrow will shed some new light on the situation. But I look forward to catching up with you soon, both here and in chat. Til then take care

Love and Light

[luvnlite]

This has been an incredible thread! Thank you, Angel for starting it The experience that you shared to start it all off is both amazing and inspirational to me. I know that much of it is painful for you and I so appreciate your willingness to open up anyway and share with us some of the miraculous things that can and do happen.

So many things have come to mind as I have read the posts and responses; but the one that is foremost in my mind comes from when my mom died 10 years ago. She had been in hospice care in a nursing home for about a month and, though it was "expected", that whole day felt very surreal to me. I sat in her room, holding her hand and talking to her. She had battled cancer for a year prior to this and now the time had come for her to let go. She looked as though she was sleeping peacefully and soon the breaths became further and fewer between. So I spoke softly to her of how much I loved her and how much her love meant to me. I fell silent for a while and noticed that she began to smile. I don't know what prompted the question, but I asked if she was seeing her angels ... and she smiled again. I held her hand to my heart and told her that she need not cling to the physical world, that I would always hold her dear to my heart and we would be together no matter where our souls were residing. I felt the slightest squeeze from her hand to mine; and within a few minutes, her last breath left her body.

[Just a quick note: this was my biological mom. I had been adopted when I was two years old and reunited with her when I was 27. That was an amazing experience in it's own rite, but is a story for another time/thread]

Anyway, about a year had passed and I had hoped and prayed to receive a message or visit from her. Honestly, I was feeling a little let down and began judging my beliefs that these things were even possible. But, I was listening to the stereo one day, and the show had invited a medium who claimed to be able to receive messages from "the other side". They were allowing a few people to call the station to have this gentleman pass along a message for them. I thought it was unlikely I would get through as I figured the phones would be flooded with callers. But the urge persisted and I dialed the number. I was so excited when I heard them answer!

Soon, I was being told how much my mom loved me and that she was feeling wonderful, all illnesses and pain gone from her and she was so happy. He said a lot of things, many of which I don't remember (I'm pretty sure I have it all written down somewhere ... will have to search for that). But before we hung up, he said that she was saying thank you for holding her hand to my heart and for being there with her the whole time, it had been very comforting to her.

WOW! I was shocked and elated to hear this! The feeling was so much like when we had reunited after those 25 years. It felt as though the connection had never been lost at all. Before she passed, she and I had agreed that if there was a way to communicate after she left her physical body, we would find it. And, I'll be darned if we didn't do it!

Since then, I've seen her in a few dreams, but haven't "felt" her, much to my dismay. Many things have happened in my life since then and I do believe I have locked much of my spiritual self and beliefs away ... perhaps not allowing many good things to happen.

But, after reading your story and the replies here in this thread, in this forum where I feel a bit safer than I have in many years, I feel myself re-opening.

Angel, you allowed yourself to be vulnerable here. You gifted us with a peek into your personal and spiritual self. In doing so, you have given me the gift of remembering the love and joy that used to fill me up and keep me going. You've reminded me not only of that phone call, but also of wonderful memories of my time spent with my mom. What you have offered is love through your openness. Thank you so much for that!

You've also reminded me that not only is this all possible, it happens every day! Perhaps, as I clear my energies and mind, I can visit with mom again (and many others who've gone on before me). You've renewed my hope ... and it's been gone for a long time. My sincerest thanks to you. Namaste, my friend.

[luvnlite]

Oh my gosh! I'm so sorry. DONQ ... thank YOU for starting the thread! I got myself all jumbled up and was thinking of Angel's reply to your insights. Thank you so much. Please accept my apologies, Namaste.

[cyberangel]

Dear Luvnlite,

Wow...I have to say what you have just wrote about your mom and you has made me cry, first because of the sadness then the overjoy of your message. You're story also reminded me of me losing one of my friends to cancer, and she said that when she goes she would find a way to send me a message. She said she would leave me a single white feather somewhere I would not expect to see one. About a 18 months after her death I was in the garden digging and memories kept popping into my head about her. It wasn't her birthday or anniversary of her death or anything but just out of the blue I would keep getting memories of her and me, then as I was digging in the dirty wet soil I remembered her White Feather she had promised...and as soon as I had thought it, there is was! Deep deep down in the hole I had just dug, a beautiful soft pure snow white feather, not even a blemish on it or even damp. My hand was shaking as I reached down to pick it up. I have no doubt that this perfect little feather was placed there by my friend and she was prompting me to remember by triggering my memories.

Now back to your beautiful post...I have no idea or explanation why we get these feelings, that prompt us to do things. But I am so glad that you didn't give up on your urge to ring the radio, although I am sure your mom would have found another way to get the message to you had you not rang Your post also reminds me of when dad was dying, it is exactly like you say very surreal, sad, numbing all rolled into hours, mins, secs. Like you we also whispered out goodbyes to dad. Thank you so much for sharing your experience luv, as much as it is sad it is also a beautiful confirmation that our loved ones do continue after death, that indeed Death is not the end.

Thank you also for your very kind sincere heartfelt words. I wish I was able to give you a big hug as Im sure you could probably do with one after sharing that precious memory. I know others will also be so grateful to you too for sharing.

Love and Light, my friend

PS. Thank you also for clarifying it was Donq's (Monty) Thread and not mine Chat soon xxx

[luvnlite]

Hi Angel! You are just so sweet thank you for your kind words (and I feel your hug all the way over here!) I love that you found your friends' feather awaiting you. Perhaps she and my mom are somewhere out there plotting their next reminder/visit I believe we are all pulled together for a reason. Much of what (and how) you write is so similar to mine, it brings about a sisterly feeling for me. I cannot put into words how comforting that is.

I feel very fortunate to have found this forum and chat room. I feel an awakening and connectedness that I have missed so much.

Thank you <3

[donq]

Hello angel & luv

No matter how much I enjoy eavesdropping on you two young ladies (compare to an old man like me ), and even as a writer, I know that anything I say would only spoil this beautiful scene (with lots and lots of hugs but I still think that I should say something a little bit.
I believe this place, this forum is our spiritual sanctuary. We “trust” this place and our friends here. And we feel safe to share something we don’t want to share it in the other places. Nay, it’s not only sanctuary for us, but for someone else, too (though with some reasons, they still cannot be a member here yet.) I believe anyone who comes here and read it, whether they might agree with us or not, will get a very good impression, a beautiful one, from this place. Kaz, Liz, Leon, Ace (to name but a few) and some friends before us, have been trying hard to provide this place for a long time, behind the scene. Somehow I think we have to try to help them keeping this place going on, do we not? Because if we not, this place will die and disappear soon, like so many good things. It’s sad but still true. Always true.

P.S. Let me (friendly) tease luv, here.

Luv, “Thank you, Angel for starting it”
(DonQ  )
Luv, “Oh my gosh! I'm so sorry. DONQ ... thank YOU for starting the thread!”
(DonQ )

[cyberangel]

Hi Luvnlite,

Im rushing out the door but I just had to reply quickly. Thank you so much I feel both honored and humbled by your reply. In the meantime I found this last night on youtube about NDE and thought it was brilliant and explains a lot of what we both have experienced. Take a look, you too Monty I think you would also enjoy it. I also thank you too my friend. Anyway, take a look when you get a chance. Love and Light

[donq]

Hi Luv,
I hope you didn’t misunderstand me about my teasing on the last post. I’m sorry if it is so. Just wanted to say thanks for your (brave) sharing again and would like to see you post more. :-)

Hi angel,
Good video! Thanks. As I used to die (or got NDE) before, I agree with Lommel “almost” everything. His work was so authentic/scientific and clarify so many things (though I still had a bit problem on listening to his English accent.) I recommend everyone here to watch this video, too, if you can.
Anyway, I really wanted to bang that interviewer’s head. He talked a bit too much and forgot to ask Lommel later about “too high sensitive” issue which he told he would do.

Hi b,
If you read this, please watch this video, I really want to hear your comment about it. Thanks in advance.

P.S. Sorry to post all in one past. I have had problem with the internet. Have to be so quick before it disconnected again.

[luvnlite]

Hi Donq! Thanks so much for the feedback and no worries about the teasing I'm all about having a good time and keeping light hearted as much as possible. I appreciate the hard work all of you have put into keeping this sanctuary going! It has certainly given me a peaceful, safe place to come and open up a bit (and to lighten up).
Blessed Be
Donna

[luvnlite]

Angel, Just finished watching the video. Thank you so much for posting it! I love it when a person of science learns of "paranormal" things and can see that it isn't bogus just because science hasn't caught up to it yet :-) The more we learn, the less we know lol. Very intriguing.
Blessed Be

[donq]

Hi Donna,

Thanks. What you share us about your mom was beautiful. And it took a courage to relive that tough memory again. This also showed how mature you are now. Thanks again. :-)

monty

[luvnlite]

Awww, Thanks Monty,

I found that I actually enjoyed reliving those moments now. For so long it was painful, but I'm coming to see it as a gift again. I'm glad you enjoyed reading it. Namaste, my friend
Donna

[donq]

Hi alena,

Sorry for my late reply. I was a bit busy today.
Astral projection? Hmm…I didn’t have any OBE (out-of-body experience) yet.
I have to tell about my spiritual background first, to make a clearer point. That time of my operation (around 32 years ago), I already had been trained in mindfulness for about 3-4 years. I would aware of my breathing and body sensation. To observe my thought/feelings that arose in my mind.
Let me give you a brief example: when any (unwanted) thought arose in my mind, then, that meant, I forget my object of mindfulness (my breathing, body movement etc.) so what I had to do to shake off those thought/feelings were focusing my attention back to my breathing again (and again.) Another example is, if some boy gently touched your hand, but you grasp his hand back so firmly, then you would change his romantic intention into friendly touch. See my point?
Though, after I got more experience about this method, I didn’t need to do anything, just doing my pure observation, and all thoughts/feelings would go away by themselves.
Anyway, the downside of this was when I was sick, really sick. Let’s put it in this way, my aware was more sensitive than average persons (who didn’t practice mindfulness) that was why I could aware of every tiny sensation on my body that normal person should not. And that was not good at all. Don’t get me wrong. Yes, normally, meditation/mindfulness could make my body (and sure, my mind) felt more relaxing and peaceful but when I got a serious ill, it was another story.
To make a long short. I didn’t have OBE . maybe because of this kind of my practice.

[donq]

Hi Alena,
Hmm…this question, it has to be a long answer, ok? :-)
When I was in the first year of my university (I was a law student) my parent got divorce. In that time, more than 30 years ago, it was very rare situation here, especially at their age. I “saw” my mother suffering everyday and I wanted to help her (sure, and helped myself, too) so I started my spiritual searching. I needed an answer.
Soon after that, I was so obsessed with searching and searching. I read almost all Thai books on the subject, without answer that satisfied me. I attended (though not enrolled) every classes on philosophy and religion at my university and I started reading all English books I could acquired and had to turn dictionaries almost every words on every pages. I learned English by myself, by heart. But again, without finding an answer I needed (Law student had nothing to do with English at all. We studied only law textbooks in Thai language. Though we studied English in school but and at that time, if someone here could speak English, he/she was more than smart, not to mentioned about reading or writing.)
Finally I decided to try more practical way. “Just reading and knowing are not enough” Then I joined Hare Krisna Movement here (as I told you before.) Everyday, I would discuss about Bhagavad Gita with my friends and chanted and meditated (with my bead.)
You have to understand that it was so hard for me. I mean, my ego told me all the time that I was a law student! What was I doing there? Anyway, after I tried doing meditation, for the first time in my life, I really found how it powerful affected on my mind. I used to know about mediation by only “reading” about it. That was not real. Just intellectual knowledge/speculation. But this practice was so real. I really was swimming, not just read about swimming.
To make the long short, I had been there around 1 year, I think. Then, one day they wanted to promote me to be someone special there after they had found that my meditation got the most amount more than anyone there. That time, my mediation device was upgraded from my bead to be a number counting machine (don’t know if I call it right.) It was a very small device holding in my hand. When I finished chanting 1 mantra in my mind, “Hare Krisna, Krisna hare hare, Hare Ram, Hare Ram, Ram, Ram, Hare, Hare” then I clicked my deice one click. And repeat it all over again.)
Anyway, I have to confess here that, I could do that just because I was so hungry! It was a special fasting day. No one ate anything for more than 18 hours. So I had no choice but had to do my mediation more than usual. :-)
When they tried to convince me that it was time for me to “teach” others, I really disagreed and had to leave them. I knew I didn’t find my answer yet.
The most benefit I got from my mediation there was I learnt how to observe my mind. When any thought arose in my mind, then, I forgot my mantra and forgot to “click” my device, hence my meditation was broken.
I asked myself if there was the other way to observe my mind without using this counting machine?
After continually searching, finally I found my spiritual teacher (s.) They were Buddhist monks. But not like most monks in Thailand, they were like Zen monks. They knew that reading was good, but it’s not the real swimming. They focused only on mindfulness practice. For example, my teacher of teacher (he passed away more than 20 years ago) was darning his own robe when someone told him that the moon was round. He looked at that man and sincerely said, “Really? I never known about it before.”
As for another teacher of mine, he was an abbot of a little Buddhist temple located in the forest of the northeast area. I had been there for many years both before and after I graduated (my university was an open university.) But I haven’t gone there for a very long time. The last time I checked, my close friend already became an abbot there while my teacher retired because of his health.

[donq]

Hi Alena,

I don’t know if anyone used to post any thread about Zen here. Anyway, let me brief it for you (yes, I got it from here and there as my memory is not that good. lol) And sorry in advance, it might sound a bit boring.

There are two (major) schools of Buddhism: Theravada or Hīnayāna ("The School of the Elders" or the "Smaller Vehicle") and Ajariyavada or Mahayana (or "The Great Vehicle"). Theravada has a widespread following in Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia (Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar etc.). Mahayana is found throughout East Asia (China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan etc.)

Theravada Buddhists believe in only what Buddha said/taught; Mahayana Buddhists believe in something more. Theravada believes if you cannot help yourself first, how could you help others? Trying to help other while you are not enlightened (enough) is only like a blind man leading another blind men. Mahayana believes that you cannot wait for your enlightenment. You have to help others as much as you could along the way, even that might delay your own enlightenment.
[note: I had studied/practice both school and respect both of them equally.]

In some classifications, Vajrayana—practiced mainly in Tibet and Mongolia, and some parts of China and Russia—is recognized as a third school, even others still considers it as a part of Mahayana.

Zen is a school of Mahayana Buddhism that developed in China during the 6th century as Chán. (from dhyāna or jhāna in Sanskrit and Pāli which means "absorption" or "meditative state". From China, Zen spread south to Vietnam, northeast to Korea and east to Japan. (Bodhidharma, an Indian Buddhist monk who lived during the 5th or 6th century CE., was traditionally credited as the transmitter of Ch'an to China, and regarded as its first Chinese patriarch. According to Chinese legend, he also began the physical training of the Shaolin monks that led to the creation of Shaolin boxing style as we have seen a lot in Chinese martial art movies.

Zen emphasizes insight into Buddha-nature and the personal expression of this insight in daily life, especially for the benefit of others. As such, it de-emphasizes mere knowledge of sutras and doctrine and favors direct understanding through zazen and interaction with an accomplished teacher.

Let me give you some examples of the insight to Buddha-nature:

Shen-hsiu, the learned senior monk, experienced in gradual meditation wrote this verse on a monastery wall:

The body is the bodhi tree,
The mind is like a clear mirror.
At all times we must strive to polish it,
And must not let the dust collect.

Hui-neng (the sixth and last Patriarch of Chán Buddhism, 638–713) He was the illiterate woodcutter from the barbarian south, offered the following alternative verse:

Bodhi originally has no tree,
The mirror(-like mind) has no stand.
Buddha-nature (emptiness/oneness) is always clean and pure;
Where is there room for dust (to alight)?

And another Zen story:

Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind. One said, "The flag moves." The other said, "The wind moves." They argued back and forth but could not agree.
The old Zen master said, "My dear students, it is not the wind that moves; it is not the flag that moves; it is your mind that moves."
The two monks were struck with awe.